The

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Podcasting

news.

This

is

the

Pod

News

Weekly

Review

with

James

Cridlin

and

Sam

Sethi.

I'm

James

Cridlin,

the

editor

of

Pod

News.

And

I'm

Sam

Sethi,

the

CEO

of

True

Fans.

That

really

helps

the

advertiser

feel

confident

that

they

are

approaching

the

right

shows

for

their

audience.

Acast's

John

Burgess

on

their

new

Smart

Recommendations

tool.

Plus,

the

growth

rate

of

people

uploading

video

podcasts

is

at

a

higher

rate

than

the

growth

rate

of

people

uploading

audio

podcasts.

Gautam

Rajanand

on

a

new

way

of

doing

video

podcasts.

Plus

Apple

Podcasts

paints

the

town

purple

and

the

Infinite

Dial

Report

for

the

uk.

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buzzsprout.com

from

your

daily.

Newsletter,

the

Pod

News

Week.

So,

James,

welcome

back

from

the

London

podcast

show.

How

are

you

feeling?

I'm

feeling

jet

lagged

and

tired,

but.

But

at

least

I

don't

have

the

COVID

which

Neil

Modi

does.

From

Headliner.

Yes,

yes.

Get

well

soon,

Neil.

Thankfully,

I

didn't

hug

him

too

long.

I

think

I'm

okay.

I

think

we're

probably

okay.

He

did

launch

two

things

at

the

podcast

show

last

week,

which

we

did

cover,

interestingly

enough.

Um,

but

we

covered

in

the

show

that

no

one

will

hear

on

this

feed,

sadly,

because

the

audio,

it's

very

weird.

The

audio

just

jumped

every

30

seconds.

So

it

must

have

been

some

kind

of,

you

know,

I

don't

know,

sample

rate

problem

or

something.

But

that

probably

means

that

everything

that

happened

in

that

room

hasn't

recorded

properly.

So.

Oops.

Anyway,

there

we

are.

But

we

might

talk

about

that

later.

So.

What'S

going

on?

What's

going

down?

What's

going

down?

You're

so

with

the

kids,

aren't

you?

Spill

the

tea.

Oh,

there

you

go.

You're

in

there

now,

right?

Well,

our

friends

at

ACAST

pinged

us

about

something

called

ACAST

Intelligence

playing

on

the

AI.

They've

come

up

with

something

called

Smart

Recommendations.

It's

an

AI

powered

podcast

ad

planning

application.

The

idea

is

they've

been

using

transcriptions

and

conversational

transcriptions

and

they've

got

third

party

data

and

they've

got

lots

of

other

signals

and

they're

taking

all

of

that

data

and

they're

giving

it

to

their

ad

planners

to

say,

look,

I

want

to

Put

in

a

prompt

such

as

Find

me,

for

example,

women

in

Canada

interested

in

investing,

which

is

a

very

obscure

prompt,

but

that

will

go

away

and

find

all

the

podcasts

that

might

be

relevant

to

that

prompt

and

then

they

can

then

start

to

build

a

targeted

campaign

against

it.

So

that

sounds

very

exciting.

It

does,

it

sounds

very

smart.

I

love

the

fact

that

AI

in

this

case

stands

for

ACAST

Intelligence.

OSHA

would

probably

like

to

claim

that

they

were

first

for

that,

but

anyway.

I

think

Apple

might

as

well.

Oh

well,

yes,

Apple.

Oh,

yes,

yes,

no,

indeed.

Anyway,

you

caught

up

with

John

Burgess

from

ACAST

and

you

asked

him,

what

is

it?

Well,

it's

a

mouthful,

but

it's

really.

Smart

Recommendations

is

what

we're

calling

it

within

the

Acast

marketplace.

Smart

Recommendations

is

essentially

an

AI

powered

search

engine

that

allows

advertisers

to

find

the

perfect

podcast

match

in

seconds.

Finding

the

right

audience

is

the

most

efficient

for

their

ad

spend.

Okay,

so

it's

AI

powered.

Now,

don't

get

me

wrong,

many

people

talk

about

AI

powered,

but

how

are

you

choosing

the

AI

to

go

and

get

a

better

result?

Yeah,

it's

a

great

question.

AI

gets

thrown

around

a

lot

these

days.

Most

people

think

about

AI,

they're

thinking

about

the

Chatgpts,

the

Groks,

the

Clauds

of

the

world,

the

typical

LLMs.

That

is

certainly

an

element

of

what

we're

doing

with

Smart

Recommendations,

but

it's

a

lot

more

than

that.

What

we're

doing

here,

what

we've

developed

with

Smart

Recommendations

is

essentially

a

way

for

you

to

use

natural

language

so

you

can

come

into

the

platform,

you

can

describe

the

audience

you're

looking

for,

you

can

describe

the

product

that

you're

wishing

to

promote.

And

with

that

natural

language,

we're

taking

that

prompt

so

I

could

type

out,

I'm

looking

for,

my

perfect

audience

is

females

in

London

interested

in

running.

And

we

take

that

and

using

LLMs,

we

can

extract

all

of

the

nuances

around

that

prompt.

So

looking

for

females

interested

in

running.

Okay,

running.

What's

kind

of

around

in

that

space,

it

might

be

that

you're

interested

in

certain

running

brands,

certain

apps

that

are

related

to

running,

all

of

those

kind

of

interests

that

runners

may

have,

and

we

kind

of

extract

all

of

that

nuance

and

that's

using

the

LLM

aspect,

but

then

we

take

it

further

than

that

and

we

across

all

of

the

kind

of

proprietary

data

that

we

have,

both

first

party

from

creators

themselves,

from

third

party

data

that

we

have,

and

also

all

of

the

kind

of

predictive

demographic

and

audience

data

that

we've

built

throughout

our

data

sets.

We

understand

a

lot

about

our

creators

and

we

can

kind

of

map

all

of

those

different

signals

to

really

find

what

is

the

perfect

shows

that

you

can

promote

against

and

that

you

can

buy

and

support

those

creators.

And

then

finally

after

that,

the

most

important

thing

is

the

why.

Why

is

this

show

the

best

fit

for

me?

And

again,

that's

where

we're

using

the

LLMs

with

all

of

the

kind

of

data

points

that

we've

extracted

and

that

reasoning

to

kind

of

narrate

that

reason

as

the

why,

that

justification.

And

that

really

helps

the

advertiser

feel

confident

that

they

are

approach

right

shows

for

their

audience.

So

Acast

did

something

really

smart

about

a

year

or

so

ago,

which

was

contextual

transcription,

which

was

the

idea

of

being

able

to

look

outside

the

immediacy

of

what

the

podcast

was

advertising

at

the

title

or

description

level.

So

you

might

have

a

podcast

that

talks

about

knitting,

but

it

had

the

mention

of

basketball

and

therefore

you

could

pull

basketball.

So

that's

the

basis

of

your

data

set,

right,

which

is

what

you're

working

against.

Now

you're

applying

an

AI

layer

to

that

data

set

and

other

data

points

that

you

have

as

well.

Now,

if

you're

doing

that,

how

are

you

seeing

the

results?

What

is

happening?

Are

you

getting,

you

know,

10%

better,

20%

better?

What's

the

return

on

this

type

of

AI

layer

that

you've

applied?

Yeah,

you

make

a

really

good

point

there

about

the

kind

of

transcripts

and

the

contextual

elements

of

that.

And

that's

one

of

the

problems

that

we

found,

right,

that

advertisers

find

and

planners

for

these

advertisers

find,

is

that

it

can

take

a

lot

of

time

to

find

the

perfect

podcast

for

you.

There's

millions

of

podcasts

out

there.

There's

140,000

podcasts

on

aircast.

And

finding

that

right

one

can

be

really

difficult

if

you're

just

relying

on

titles

and

descriptions

and

things

like

that.

But

when

we're

going

deeper

and

we're

really

looking

into

the

show

and

what

is

being

talked

about,

that's

where

we

can

really

find

those

perfect

matches,

which

might

not

be

so

easy

to

find.

And

to

your

point

about

the

kind

of

stats

that

we're

seeing,

we've

been

running

this

internally

now

for

around

six

to

eight

weeks.

It's

been

used

on

over

200

campaign

briefs

during

the

internal

test

period.

And

anecdotally

from

our

planners,

we

see

that

we've

gone

from

in

the

range

of

an

hour

to

put

together

the

recommendations

to

less

than

five

minutes.

So

92%

time

saving,

which

is

huge.

Right.

That

allows

Those

planners

to

really

go

and

work

on

higher

value

campaigns.

It

allows

them

to

do

more

creative

endeavors

that

they

may

not

have

had

the

time

for

in

the

past.

We're

really

seeing

it

as

a

second

brain,

if

you

like,

for

the

planners

and

the

advertisers

to

really

allow

them

to

optimize

their

time.

So,

okay,

so

you're

seeing

big

gains

in

time

efficiency.

Are

you

seeing

better

retention

of

listeners

to

the

adverts?

Now

one

of

the

problems

I

perceive,

I'm

not

in

the

advertising

game,

but

it's

just

my

perception

is

that

people,

if

or

when

they

can,

will

skip

past

because

the

ad

is

irrelevant

to

their

context.

Right.

So

you

might

have

a

podcast,

the

ads

irrelevant.

We've

seen

it

all.

You

know,

Casper

Mattress

in

the

middle

of

a

tech

podcast

is

really

irrelevant

and

it's

not

even

targeted

at

me

and

it's

not

even

timely.

So

none

of

those

context

elements.

So

the

natural

thing

is

I'll

skip

past

it.

So

are

you

finding

by

using

the

AI

and

targeting

the

podcast

to

find

better

matching

that

you're

also

getting

better

listener

retention

of

the

ad?

I

think

the

listener

retention

of

the

ad

is

a

really

interesting

metric

to

measure.

It's

not

something

that

we

have

numbers

on

right

now.

But

what

I

would

say

is

that

by

using

the

smart

recommendations,

what

we

are

trying

to

do

here

also

is

improve

the

relevancy

of

the

ad

which

is

being

served.

So

the

example

that

you

used

there

with

let's

say

a

Casper

mattress

or

could

be

any

advertiser,

there

has

always

been

that

inherent

bias,

let's

say

where

you've

built

your

relationship

with

that

show,

you

have

a

really

good

relationship

with

them

and

you

tend

to

go

back

to

them.

Or

you

would

typically

approach

to

work

with

the

big

name

shows

that

everyone

knows

about

the

top

of

the

charts

and

that's

how

it

kind

of

manifests.

We

get

all

of

these

brands

that

are

going

for

these

top

shows

because

they

have

a

very

large

audience.

But

again,

what

that

actually

results

in

sometimes

is

that

it

may

not

be

the

most

efficient

and

it

may

not

be

the

most

relevant.

And

what

we're

doing

here

is

it's

around

surfacing

the

most

relevant

creators

for

your

brief.

So

our

hope

here

is

that

that

relevance

increases

and

therefore

the

retention

and

the

skip

rates

and

subsequent

metrics

will

decrease

over

time

as

a

result

of

the

improved

relevance

and

that

data

driven

matchmaking

that

we're

generating

here

with

smart

recommendations.

And

we

already

do

start

to

see

that.

So

we

already

start

to

see

that

we

are

surfacing.

Let's

say

that

those

shows

that

may

not

have

made

it

onto

a

media

plan

in

the

past.

We've

seen

that

from

shows

that

have

less

than

50,000

listens

in

a

week.

We've

seen

a

35%

increase

in

visit

rates

to

those

pages

as

a

result

of

smart

recommendations

and

a

14%

increase

in

purchasing

of

those

shows

that

may

not

have

appeared

on

the

plan

had

it

been

through

a

manual

discovery

process.

So

we

are

seeing

really

big

moves

in

relevance.

And

to

your

point,

over

time,

the

hope

would

be,

and

the

plan

would

be

that

those

retention

metrics

improve.

Okay,

now

let's

dig

a

little

deeper.

What

AI

are

you

using?

You

know,

what

flavor

of

AI?

Because

there's

many

LLMs

out

there.

Yeah.

So

we're

using

OpenAI's

four

zero

four

or

mini

at

this

point.

We

chose

this

because

of

the

efficiency

elements

of

it.

There's

many

versions

and

over

time

we

need

to

see

how

things

play

out.

We're

really

excited

to

be

launching

this

week

and

over

time

we're

going

to

be

reviewing

how

it's

being

used,

the

types

of

prompts

that

people

are

putting

in

there,

how

long

are

they,

how

descriptive

are

they,

how

maybe,

you

know,

very

broad

they

are,

and

finding

that

right

model

that

most

suits

the

need.

But

as

I

say,

we're

using

a

very

efficient

model

for

the

use

case

at

the

moment

and

we'll

see

over

time

if

we

need

to

make

any

changes

on

that

to

improve

the

results.

So

prompt

engineering

is

very

critical.

You've

just

said

that.

And

will

you

be

there

for

giving

out

help

and

advice

training

to

people

who

are

using

the

service

in

order

to

get

the

better

result?

So

how

are

you

going

to

help

them?

Yeah,

it's

a

really

good

point.

I

mean,

prompt

engineering

is

the

term

of

the

year

so

far,

and

it's

something

that

we

thought

about

through

the

design,

the

interface.

And

when

you

actually

come

into

the

ACASTA

platform

and

you

go

into

the

smart

recommendations,

we

actually

provide

you

there

with

some

guidance

on

how

best

to

format

that

prompt.

We'll

give

you

two

or

three

different

kind

of

starting

suggestions.

So

my

audience

is,

or

I'm

looking

for

podcasts

about,

for

example,

or

find

podcasts

similar

to

a

certain

show

or

a

certain

brand

and

so

on

and

so

forth.

So

we're

kind

of

guiding

the

user

in

these

early

stages

and

also

on

the

back

of

that,

we

also

provide

you

with

all

the

past

recommendations

that

you've

run

as

well.

So

you

have

that

full

history

of

what

you've

done.

You

can

run

some

side

by

side

comparisons

by

changing

the

prompt.

And

I

think

over

time,

as

we

build

out

what

we're

calling

here,

aircast

Intelligence

Suite,

over

time,

we

want

to

make

that

more

proactive

as

well.

Kind

of

less

reliant

on

the

user

to

kind

of

engineer

those

prompts,

but

be

more

proactive,

making

proactive

recommendations

for

the

user

based

on

their

past,

recommendations

that

they've

had,

where

they've

purchased

certain

shows,

where

they've

worked

with

certain

creators

in

the

past

and

how

we

can

help

them

really

more

proactively

build

those

prompts,

that's

going

to

find

those

perfect

shows

for

them.

So

if

I

wanted

to

come

and

play

with

it,

try

it,

get

my

hands

on

it,

and

see

the

results

of

what

it

might

be

before

I

commit,

could

I

go

anywhere

on

the

ACAST

website

to

play

with

it

now?

Absolutely.

So

from

today

it's

available

on

the

Acast

ad

platform.

You

can

go

into

creating

a

sponsorship

campaign

and

you

can

play

around

with

it.

That

would

be

great.

Is

this

a

free

add

on

to

customers

who

are

already

using

the

ACAST

platform

or

is

this

an

additional

function

and

feature?

It's

included

within

the

acastab

platform.

Nice.

So

I

don't

have

to

get

my

wallet

out

more.

John,

thank

you

so

much.

Remind

everyone

again

very

quickly

if

they

want

to

find

out

more.

Where

would

I

go

and

find

some

videos?

Where

would

I

go

and

find

some

more

info?

You

can

head

over

to

selfserve.arcast.com

you

can

start

playing

around

and

you

can

head

to

acast.com

to

find

out

more

information

about

smart

recommendations.

Perfect.

See

you

soon,

John.

Thank

you,

Sam.

Jon

Burgess,

who

you

met

up

with

at

the

podcast

show

in

London,

talking

about

acast's

new

thing.

But

that

wasn't

the

only

thing

that

happened

at

the

podcast

show,

of

course.

Well,

some

of

us

got

an

invite

and

some

of

us

didn't.

So

you

went

to

the

swanky

Apple

party,

whatever

it

may

be,

where

they

painted

the

town

purple.

So

as

I

wasn't

there.

Tell

me

more,

James.

Well,

I

went

to

go

and

see

the

folks

at

Apple.

Now

that

is

something

that

I'm

actually

not

allowed

to

tell

you.

Rather

bizarrely,

they're

the

men

in

black.

They

really

are

the

men

in

black.

But

down

in

Battersea

in

South

London,

innit?

South

of

the

river.

They

may

or

may

not

have

had

a

little,

a

little

shindig

as

well,

which

I

was

invited

to,

but

in

the

end

I

didn't

go

to

because

my

voice

was.

My

voice

was

going.

And

also

I

wanted

to

make

sure

that

you

didn't

spend

all

of

the

POD

News

money

on

the

drinks,

which

so

I

failed

on

that

one.

But

Anyway,

yeah,

you

failed

on

that

one

desperately.

I

wish

you'd

turned

up

about

20

hours

earlier.

But

anyway,

there

is

a

beautiful

picture

in

POD

News

from

last

week

showing

Battersea

Power

Station,

which

is

of

course

where

Apple's

UK

operations

are

based,

turning

Apple

podcasts

purple

because

they

managed

to

convince

the

landlords

to

end

up

doing

that.

All

I

can

tell

you

is

that

their

offices

are

very

nice,

as

you

would

expect.

But

Apple

ended

Up

Speaking.

Jake

Shapiro

and

Susie

Warhurst

from

Apple

Podcasts

ended

up

speaking

at

the

podcast

show.

It's

the

first

time

that

Apple

have

officially

spoken

at

a

podcasting

event.

So

quite

a

coup

for

the

London

podcast

show

to

have

got.

Susie

Warhurst,

of

course,

is

in

charge

of

Apple

in

the

uk,

Ireland

and

other

places.

Jake

Shapiro,

ex

of

Radio

Public,

has

been

involved

in

podcasting

since

the

year

Dot

and

works

out

of

Boston,

but

they

ended

up

sharing

a

ton

of

information,

including

data

from

one

of

Girl

Hanger's

shows.

The

Rest

Is

history,

which

has

45,000

paying

subscribers

using

Apple

Podcasts,

most

of

them

57%

of

them

paying

the

annual

plan,

which

is

60

quid,

99

Australian

dollars.

I

don't

know

how

many

US

dollars

that

is,

but

it's

quite

a

lot

of

money.

And

that's

quite

nice,

they

say.

Helpful

for

retention.

Absolutely

it

is.

But

you

can

very

clearly

see

that

that

is

some

nice

income

coming

in

for

the

Rest

Is

History.

So

at

least.

Well,

what's

that?

At

least

2.7

million.

Would

that

be

right?

That

can't

be

right.

45,000

paying

subscribers

times

60.

Yes,

I

suppose

it

is,

isn't

it?

2.7

million.

Yeah.

Minus

Apple's

30%,

of

course.

But,

yeah,

quite

a

thing,

I

thought.

Yes,

well,

I

thought

it

was

even

funny

because

Jack

Davenport

and

Max

Cutler

on

stage

talking

about

fandom

and

monetization,

and

they

both

agreed

that

the

best

way

forward

was

to

move

to

substack.

So

we'll

see

what

happens

next.

Yes,

well,

that's

a

little

bit

of

a

strange

thing.

I

mean,

I

look

at

it

and

I

go,

you

know,

Apple

Podcasts

works

fantastically,

of

course,

within

Apple

Podcasts,

but,

you

know,

moving

to

substack

is

a

different

conversation

to

also

using

substack,

because

I'm

sure

that

all

of

these

tools

would

end

up

using

a

bunch

of

those,

you

know,

other

things

like.

Yeah,

indeed,

indeed.

That

makes

no

sense

at

all.

But

yeah,

so

that

was

good.

They

also

pointed

out

how

good

UK

podcasting

is,

because

of

course

they

would.

And

they

announced

the

latest

addition

to

the

Creators

We

Love

program,

which

includes

five

of

the

UK's

most

established

podcasters.

Now,

I

am

unaware

that

Apple

have

ever

mentioned

creators

we

love

from

any

other

country

other

than

the

United

States

of

America.

So

interesting

to

see

Apple

podcasts

all

of

a

sudden

jumping

in

and

going,

you

know

what,

we're

actually

going

to

support

some

creators

from

other

countries

as

well

now.

So

that's

certainly

a

very

good

thing.

Does

that

mean

that

the

podcast

of

the

year

this

year

is

going

to

be

from

the

uk?

Probably

not,

but

certainly

nice

to

see

them

ending

up

doing

that.

But,

yeah,

I

thought

it

was

a

really

good

thing

for

Apple

to

have.

I

know

that

it

was

an

awful

lot

of

hard

work

for

the

team

to

get

it

agreed

and

accepted

and

everything

else,

but

really

good

to

see

them

speaking

at

the

podcast

show

in

London,

connecting

with

the

podcast

community

in

that

way.

And

I

think

that

was

a

pretty

good

thing.

Yeah,

no,

congratulations

to

Jason

Carter

and

the

team

there

for

getting

them

there.

I

do

think

Apple

hopefully

are

now

going

to

embrace

more

of

the

podcast

community.

There

was

a

big

discussion

with

Apple

around

them

embracing

more

podcasting

2.0

tags.

They

had

connected

with

the

Podcast

Standards

group,

which

we'll

talk

about

later,

about

what

they

want

from

the

industry.

And

there's

a

list

going

back

to

Apple

about

what

the

industry

wants

from

them.

And

I

think

one

of

the

big

ones

is

will

they

support

HLS,

their

own

technology

that

they

invented

themselves

in

2009?

And,

you

know,

they

do

support

video,

but

they

don't

tell

anyone

about

it.

And

weirdly,

I

think

you

wrote

about

somebody

called

John

Wordock

who

reminded

us

that

back

in

2017,

Apple

actually

had

an

audio

chart

and

a

video

chart.

Yes.

Which

was

interesting.

Yes.

So

I

must

have

missed

when

they

pulled

the

video

podcasts

chart.

Maybe

it's

still

available

in

the

API.

Who

knows?

That

would

be

something

that

Dan

Meisner

could

look

into.

But

yes,

I

mean,

I

think,

you

know,

as

I've

been

going

on

and

on

and

on

about

video,

just

raw

video

files

in

openrss

does

not

work.

And

there

are

lots

of

reasons

why

it

doesn't

work.

Just

do

a

search

for

video

podcasts,

RSS,

James

Cridland

in

your

favorite

podcast,

in

your

favorite

Internet

search

engine

to

find

out

all

of

the

reasons.

So

HLS

would

be

a

perfect

use

of

that

and

using

open

video.

And

there's

probably

no

reason

why

someone

like

Apple,

if

they

shared

the

stats,

couldn't

cache

some

of

that

as

well,

you

know.

So

I

think

there's

quite

a

lot

of

interesting

things

that

Apple

could

do

with

video

podcasts.

But

just

bunging

a

massive,

you

know,

2

gigabyte

file

in

an

RSS

feed

is

not

going

to

be

the

way

that

you

end

up

doing

that.

So.

No,

yeah,

So

I

agree

100%.

I

mean,

you

know,

and

certainly,

you

know,

all

of

the

indications

are,

is

that,

you

know,

Apple

are

very

keen

on

to

continue

looking

at

open

standards

where

they

can,

where

it

fits

with

what

they

want

to

end

up

doing,

but

open

standards

where

they

can,

to

help

promote

shows

and

to

help

link

to

shows

and

everything

else.

I

think,

particularly

when

you

start

having

a

look

at

things

like

Pod

Roll,

the

recommendations

from

podcast

creators,

that's

something

that

could

very

easily

be

put

into

the

Apple

podcasts

app

as

well.

And

that

would

certainly

answer

some

of

the

criticism

that

Apple

have

in

that,

you

know,

many

people

say

they

only

support

the

big

shows.

They

don't

only

support

the

big

shows.

There's

plenty

of

places

in

the

Apple

podcasts

app

where

smaller

shows

are

given

quite

a

lot

of

push.

But

even

so,

I

think

recommendations

from

creators

is

a

really

good

and

easy

way

to

actually

approve

that

as

well.

Do

you

think

it'll

happen?

I

think

it

could.

I

mean,

you

could

end

up

having

Apple's

requirement

for

the

Pod

roll

tag

to

include

the

Apple

id,

but

I

don't

think

that

anybody

would

turn

around

and

say

that

that's

an

awful

idea.

So,

you

know,

I

think

Apple

is

big

enough

for

them

to

turn

around.

Yes,

we

would

love

to

support

that.

We

don't

use

this

podcast

guid,

whatever

that

is,

and

we

would

rather

not

do

an

RSS

lookup.

Can

we

have

our

own

ID

in

there?

And

I'm

sure

that

most

people

would

jump

on

that

because

we

all

know

the

Apple

IDs

anyway.

So,

you

know,

so

why

not?

Yeah,

no,

well,

let's

see,

let's

see.

I'm

not

holding

my

breath

is

all

I'd

say,

Sam.

No,

but

I

think,

you

know,

Apple

are

very

aware.

I

mean,

you

know,

it

was

interesting

on

one

side

they

said

how

much

OpenRSS

is

important,

how

much

Apple

has

been

working

with

OpenRSS.

It's

nearly

20

years

since

podcasts

went

into

itunes

and

all

of

that

kind

of

stuff.

And

then

on

the

second,

basically

the

second

thing

that

they

announced

was

working

together

with

Canva

to

produce

the

very

Apple

centric

extra

graphics

that

Apple

require

for

their

app.

I

mean,

if

I

were

Apple,

I

would

be

turning

around

and

saying,

you

know

what,

that

should

be

open

as

well.

You

can't

say

that

you

have

been

doing

all

of

this

wonderful

stuff

for

OpenRSS

and

then

in

the

next

breath

say,

oh,

and

by

the

way,

our

proprietary

graphics

that

we'd

like

podcasters

to

make.

We're

making

it

slightly

easier

for

you

to

send

those

proprietary

graphics

instantly

to

us.

It's

not

necessarily

the

answer,

so

we

will

see

quite

what

happens

there.

Now,

one

of

the

other

things

that

was

announced

at

the

London

podcast

show

was

the

Infinite

Dial

UK

report.

At

least

some

of

it

was

announced.

And

yesterday,

if

you

wanted

to,

you

could

have

gone

on

to

the

webinar

and

seen

the

full

report.

What's

in

the

report,

James?

Yeah,

so

in

the

report

it's

much

like

Infinite

Dial

us

and

in

fact

it

are

asks

the

same

questions,

but

just

to

a

UK

audience.

And

that's

helpful

because

that

allows

us

to

compare

US

versus

uk,

you

know,

and

understand

where

the

similarities

are,

where

the

differences

are.

I

mean,

the

main

headline

story

was

that

the

data

gives

a

new

high

in

the

UK

for

monthly

listening

for

podcasts

at

51%.

It's

53%,

if

you

remember,

in

the

US.

So,

and

I

think

this

has

been

the

story

of

the

Infinite

Dial.

The

last

one

was

done,

I

think,

in

2022.

I'd

like

to

say

so

a

few

years

ago,

maybe

even

2021.

But

the

story

has

always

been

that

the

UK

is

a

couple

of

years

behind

where

the

US

is

in

terms

of

consumption.

And

this

is

certainly

showing

that.

I

think

part

of

that

is

the

BBC,

the

BBC's

radio

player

or,

you

know,

iplayer

or

whatever,

whatever

it's

called

BBC

sounds

these

days,

isn't

it?

And

I

think

that

that

rather,

rather,

you

know,

makes

things

a

little

bit

more

complicated.

But

anyway,

really

useful

data.

It's

also

coming

out

here

in

Australia

relatively

soon

and

coming

out

in

New

Zealand

later

on

in

the

year.

So

we'll

have

four

countries

to

be

able

to,

you

know,

check

and

look

at,

and

it'd

be

great

to

see

more,

more

countries

taking

part

in

that

as

well.

Also

released

in

London,

the

top

25

podcasts

in

the

UK

for

quarter

one,

25

from

Edison

podcast

Metrics.

They

measure

pretty

well

every

podcast

which

is

available

out

there.

By

asking

people

what

podcasts

they've

been

listening

to,

and

no

change

in

the

top

three.

Joe

Rogan

at

number

one.

The

rest

is

politics.

At

two.

Diary

of

a

CEO

at

three,

Goal

Hanger

has

four

shows

in

the

top

10,

which

is.

Is

fairly

impressive.

Well,

you

know,

now

that

Gary's

not

at

the

BBC,

he

needs

the

money.

Well,

I

don't

know

if

you,

if

you

notice,

but

walking

to

the

podcast

show

from

Angel

Tube,

there

were

a

lot

of

those

electronic

billboards

and

all

of

those

electronic

billboards

every

Second

ad

was

for

a

goal

hanger

show.

So

if

I

was

goal

Hanger,

I

would

have

bought

those

specifically

for

people

going

to

the

show

because

that

would

make

perfect

sense.

But

even

so,

it

was

a

pretty

impressive

sight

walking

up

Islington

High

street,

you

know,

seeing

all

of

these

ads

for

those

big

gull

hanger

shows.

So

well

done

them.

I

think

that

that

was

a

very

clever

thing

to

do.

Yeah.

I

wasn't

joking

though,

that

the

BBC

have

dropped

the

Rest

Is

Football,

the

first

of

the

goal

hanger

podcasts

already.

Have

they

really?

What,

they've

taken

it

off

ABC

sounds

already?

Completely.

Yeah.

So

I

would

expect

that

the

others

will

go

soon

as

well.

Gosh.

Well,

there

we

are.

Yeah.

I

think

the

Rest

is

football

was

the

only

one

that

was

there.

The

rest

is

history,

I

think

was

the

other

one,

actually.

But

you've.

But

you've

reminded

me.

Yeah,

the

Rest

is

politics.

They

couldn't

touch

the

BBC

because

it's

not

necessarily

quite

how

the

BBC

would

have.

Yes,

would

have

liked,

but

interesting.

I

will

take

a

peek

at

that

now.

Also,

Ofcom

released

some

information.

James,

what

have

they

said?

Yeah,

so

ofcom

is

the

UK's

media

regulator.

They

released

two

sets

of

data,

a

podcast

survey

and

an

audio

survey

for

2025.

Now,

what

Ofcom

do

quite

helpfully

is

that

they

just

publish

all

of

the

data

for

the

podcast

stuff,

the

audio

survey.

They've

done

quite

a

lot

of

work

making

it

look

n

explaining

what

the

data

says.

With

the

podcast

survey,

you're

on

your

own.

And

so

thank

heavens

for

veteran

radio

analyst

Adam

Bowie.

I'm

sure

he

likes

being

called

that.

Anyway,

he's

crunched

the

numbers

to

find

out

more

from

the

data.

Now,

three

things

that

I

thought

was

really

interesting

from

there.

Firstly,

the

average

number

of

podcasts

Brits

listen

to

IS5,

which

is

interesting,

seeing

that

number.

Men

are

more

likely

to

listen

regularly

to

podcasts

than

women.

Probably

something

to

do

with

the

subject

matter,

maybe

something

to

do

with

the

tech,

who

knows?

And

the

biggest

reason

people

give

for

stopping

listening

to

podcasts

is

that

they

can't

find

any

podcasts

that

interest

them.

And

again,

I'm

just

going

to

say

Pod

roll,

because

that

could

certainly

fix

quite

a

lot

of

that.

So

just

something

to

bear

in

mind.

There

were

some

other

things.

In

fact,

one

of

the

things

that

I

noticed

for

the

radio

newsletter

that

I

write,

which

is

called

Radio

Land,

which

I

stole

your

idea

for

a

name

there.

One

of

the

things,

one

of

the

things

that

I

did

spot

from

that

is

that

it

gives

quite

a

lot

of

information

about,

you

know,

radio

Obviously.

And

radio

listening

and

all

of

that.

Music

radio,

62%

listen

each

week.

Speech

radio,

36%

listen

each

week,

which

I

thought

was

interesting.

Although

that

doesn't

necessarily

say

that

listeners

want

music

rather

than

speech.

But

the

one

thing

that

it

did

say,

which

I

have

underlined

and

written

in,

you

know,

in

big

colored

writing,

3

in

5

smart

speaker

users

say

their

devices

played

the

wrong

thing

when

asked

to

play

a

particular

radio

station.

Three

and

five,

not

surprised.

That's

a

data

point

to

be

worried

about.

I'm

not

surprised

either.

But

isn't

it

brilliant

that

Ofcom

are

actually

asking

that

question?

So,

yeah,

really

good.

And

total

radio

listening

in

cars

higher

in

2024

than

it

has

ever

been

in

history.

So

lots

of

people

Talking

about

Apple

CarPlay,

lots

of

people

talking

about

Android

Auto,

as

you

know,

adding

podcasts

into

cars.

And

nobody's

listening

to

the

radio

anymore.

No,

total

radio

listening

in

cars

higher

last

year

than

ever,

which

I

thought

was

very,

very.

I'd

love

to

see

how

that's

measured.

Very,

very

interesting.

There

you

go,

you

see,

it's

always

the

way,

isn't

it?

As

soon

as

you

see

some,

some

data

which

says

what

you

don't.

What

you

don't

believe.

I'd

love

to

see

how

that

was

measured.

Well,

isn't

that

the

case?

Okay,

if

it

disagrees

with

my

point

of

opinion,

I'd

like

to

know

how

they've

come

to

it.

Correct.

But

yes.

So

some

useful

data

in

there

and

you'll

find

that

linked

from

the

POD

News

newsletter

this

week.

Let's

whizz

around

the

world.

Quickly,

James,

back

in

your

country.

UK

based

entertainment

group

Global's

done

something

down

there.

What

have

they

done?

Yes,

so

they

have

signed

a

strategic

partnership

with

Australia's

ARN,

which

runs

iHeart

here

in

Australia.

And

basically

ARN

will

sell

out

ads

into

Global's

shows

and

ARN's

shows

will

be

available

within

the

Global

player

in

the

uk,

which

to

me

does

not

read

that

Global

is

going

to

sell

any

of

the

ads

inside

ARN's

shows,

which

I

thought

was

interesting

but

nevertheless

good

news,

I'm

sure

for

Global

because

they'll

get

a

little

bit

more

money.

Bad

news

for

me

because

I

listen

to

a

number

of

shows

from

Global

which

have

been

blissfully

ad

free,

which

will

no

longer

be

ad

free.

And

I

listen

to

the

Best

of

the

Chris

Morales

Breakfast

show

on

Radio

X

which,

my

goodness,

I

downloaded

an

episode

of

that

in

the

UK

while

I

was

over

there

and

I've

been

having

a

listen

to

it

over

the

last

couple

of

days.

It's

chock

full

of

ads.

Every

10

minutes

there's

another

ad

break,

so

I'm

going

to

have

to

get

used

to

that

fairly

quickly.

But

good

news

for

Arn

anyway.

Spanish

language

podcast

platform

Ivoox

or

evoox

has

published

a

monetary

monetization

guide.

So

they

are

doing

private

RSS

feeds,

but

also

paid

RSS

feeds

within

their

own

app.

And

they

say

that

they

have

so

far

shared

over

4

million

euro

in

income

for

creators.

That's

about

4.2

million

US

dollars.

So

they

seem

to

be

doing

quite

nicely

in

terms

of

that.

There's

a

company

that

you

might

want

to

have

a

a

chat

with

about

L402,

something

that

we

will

cover

next

week.

And

in

Germany

some

figures

from

MA

podcast,

which

is

one

of

these

podcast

rankers.

Total

downloads

down

5%

from

March.

The

true

crime

show

Maudlust

made

it

to

number

one,

6.8

million

downloads

for

that

as

well.

So

always

good

to

see

other

rankers

and

other

data

showing

us

what's

listened

to

in

other

countries.

People

News

on

the

pod

News

Weekly

Review.

Anyone

moving

in

grooving

this

week?

James

Yes,

a

few

people.

Somebody

called

Hugh

Ormond

is

the

first

head

of

podcasting

for

RTE

in

Ireland.

RTE

is

the

big

public

broadcaster

there

and

it

doesn't

weirdly

doesn't

seem

to

have

a

podcasting

background

to

be

their

first

head

of

podcasting.

He's

been

a

producer,

he's

produced

radio

and

TV

shows

for

18

years

within

RTE

and

is

now

their

head

of

podcasting.

So

best

of

luck

Hugh.

Looking

forward

to

seeing

a

bit

more

stuff

coming

out

of

that

broadcaster

because

it

does

produce

some

very

good

things.

RTE

Radio

1

is

the

big

sort

of

full

service

radio

station,

a

bit

like

Radio

4

or

kind

of

NPR

in

Ireland

and

has

some

very

good

shows.

So

should

lend

itself

very

nicely

to

podcasts

one

would

have

thought,

and

a

couple

of

other

people.

Podimo

has

appointed

a

chief

content

officer

called

Georgia

Brown.

Now

what

was

interesting

in

that

report

wasn't

necessarily

that

they've

got

a

chief

content

officer,

but

that

she's

English

and

there

is

in

that

press

release

talk

of

an

expansion

into

English

language

content.

Now

you

might

remember

that

Podimo

is

one

of

these

companies

that

that

charges

for

access

to

its

shows

again.

L402

Sam,

just

write

that

one

down

on

your

list.

Just

told

you

we'll

have

this

great

discussion

in

two

weeks

time.

But

yes,

there

you

go.

So

interesting

to

see

Ponimo

diving

into

English

language

stuff.

And

the

BBC

has

finally

got

a

head

of

sales

for

podcasts

in

North

America,

somebody

that

should

know

a

thing

or

two

because

he

was

the

VP

and

the

Chief

Revenue

Officer

of

Barometer,

John

Sardellis,

who

will

be

working

for

the

BBC

there.

So

clearly

some

money

to

be

made

there,

you

would

have

thought.

Now,

we

touched

on

the

fact

that

the

London

podcast

show

was

really

good

this

year

and

everyone

I,

I

think

if

my

LinkedIn

notifications

is

anything

to

go

by,

I

love

the

show.

I

mean,

my

God,

it

went

off

the

Richter

scale

with

a

number

of

people

being

mentioned

and

then

the

number

of

times.

But

congratulations

to

Jason

Carter

and

to

Fergar

and

the

whole

team

there.

How

many

people

went

through

the

doors

eventually?

James?

Yes.

So

just

for

the

show

itself,

6,100

over

the

two

days

of

conferences

and

exhibition.

That

makes

it

by

far

the

biggest

podcast

show

in

the

world.

Podcast

movement

sometimes

does

around

2,000,

2,500.

Now,

even

if

you

were

to

suggest

that

they've

double

counted,

if

I

went

in

the

doors

on

the

Wednesday

and

then

again

on

the

Thursday,

I

might

have

been

counting

counted

twice.

But

even

if

I

was

counted

twice,

that

is

still

significantly

bigger

than

podcast

movement.

So

congratulations

to

them.

But

that

wasn't

everything

because

of

course,

the

podcast

show

also

had

the

podcast

festival

that

was

around

it

with

live

shows

that

you

could

go

and

pay

to

go

and

watch.

And

so

overall,

the

event

had

over

10,000

people

who

ended

up

taking

part

in

it.

So

it's

a

pretty

good

thing.

Now,

interestingly,

Jason

Carter

said

that

the

aim

of

the

London

event

isn't

to

grow,

at

least

in

that

venue.

They

may

do

some

more

venue

stuff

elsewhere

in

North

London,

but

the

plan

there

is

to

continue

to

improve

and

engage

with

the

visitors

there

rather

than

cram

more

people

into

the

venue,

which

I

think

makes

for

a

bunch

of

sense

as

well.

You

know,

clearly

lots

of

people

have

been

talking

to

them

about

launching

in

other

countries

as

well.

The

interesting

thing

though,

I

think

for

me

is

if

they

were

going

to

launch

the

podcast

show,

New

York,

for

example,

then,

which

sounds

like

a

very

sensible

idea

off

the

top

of

it,

it

would

essentially,

from

my

point

of

view,

kill

the

UK

show,

because

actually

quite

a

lot

of

the

people

coming

to

that

UK

show

were

coming

from

the

us

so

I'm

kind

of

looking

at

that

and

going,

yes,

I

can

see

the

excitement

of,

you

know,

let's

launch

an

event

in

New

York,

but

actually

that

would

probably

kill

the

UK

one.

So

perhaps

there

are

opportunities

for

a

little

bit

further

afield

or

in.

Or

in

other

parts

of

the

world.

But

I'm

not

so

sure

that

a

U.S.

move,

you

know,

you'd

have

to

be

you'd

have

to

do

that

quite

carefully,

wouldn't

you?

Yeah,

well,

I

mean,

most

of

the

Americans

would

say,

well,

we'll

go

here,

but

then

would

the

Brits

go

to

the

American

one

and

then

suddenly

go,

well,

why

are

we

doing

anything

in

the

London

one?

What's

lovely

about

the

whole

show

is

that

you

felt

everyone

was

there.

Pretty

much.

I

know

there

was

a

few

people

missing,

but

generally

everybody

was

there.

And

you.

What

I

love

about

it,

compared

to

the

ones

I've

gone

to

in

the

us

it

is

very

tight,

so

it

feels

very

buzzy.

And

you.

You

can

look

left,

you

can

look

right,

and

there's

always

somebody

you

know

and

you

can

talk

to.

Whereas

when

I've

been

to

Vegas

or

I've

been

to

la,

I'm

generally

walking

a

bazillion

miles

to

go

to

a.

To

a

seminar

and

then

not

seeing

anyone

there

because

they're

a

bazillion

miles

the

other

way

in

another

room.

And.

And

you

don't

get

that

sense

in

America

that

anyone's

actually

at

the

event,

even

though

they

are.

Yeah.

Whereas

you

do

get

that

sense

in

London

that

everybody

is

there.

Well,

and.

And

evolutions

being

particularly

that.

I

mean,

you

know,

it

really

felt

as

if

there

was

nobody

there

and

there

was.

There

was

quite

a

lot

of

people

at

that

event

in

Chicago.

But

yes,

I

thought

that

that

was.

That

that

was

interesting

to

end

up

seeing.

The

one

thing

that

I

would

say,

by

the

way,

is

that

if

you

look

on

the

podcast

movement

website

right

now,

there

is

no

mention

of

Podcast

Movement

Evolutions

anymore.

Absolutely

no

mention.

There's

something

to

have

a

look

back

at

this

year,

but

in

terms

of

where

it

is

next

year,

no

mention

whatsoever.

Not

quite

sure

what

that

tells

you.

Well,

maybe

I

am

sure

that

tells

me

looks

as