The

Pod

News

Weekly

Review

uses

chapters.

Use

a

modern

podcast

app

to

skip.

Between

stories

and

interviews,

or

show

us.

How

grown

up

you

are

by

listening

to

the

whole

thing.

The

last

word

in

Podcasting

news

This

is

the

Pod

News

Weekly

Review

with

James

Kridlin

and

Sam

Sethi.

I'm

James

Kridlin,

the

editor

of

Pod

News.

And

I'm

Sam

Sethi,

the

CEO

of

Truthans.

This

is

another

great

thing

that

we

can

offer

to

our

podcasters,

Alban

Brook.

From

our

sponsor,

buzzsprout,

on

new

integrations

into

Apple

Podcast

Premium

subscriptions

and

more

tools

to

help

you

keep

podcasting.

Plus,

you

get

a

huge

amount

of

loyalty

from

the

listeners.

Right.

So

the

listeners

don't

want

to

skip

these

ads.

Michael

Bayston

from

Acast

on

the

company's

new

talent

voiced

ads.

Plus,

Spotify's

play

count

continues

to

Split

opinion

and

YouTube

looks

at

alternatives

to

advertising.

This

podcast

is

sponsored

by

buzzsprout

with

the

tools,

support

and

community

to

ensure

you

keep

podcasting.

Start

podcasting.

Keep

podcasting

with

Buzzsprout.com

from

your

newsletter.

The

Pod

News

Weekly

Review.

So,

James,

look,

a

bit

of

fallout

from

Spotify's

play

announcement.

There's

been

a

lot

of

backlash.

What's

this

all

about?

Yeah,

this

is

a

really

interesting

development.

Spotify

announcing

something

and

then

all

of

a

sudden

going,

oh,

we

didn't,

we

didn't

realize

that

people

would

take

this

so

badly.

Yes,

quite

a

lot

of

adverse

reaction

to

Spotify's

announcement

that

it's

going

to

be

adding

play

counts

to

podcasts

on

its

app.

They've

put

something

on

threads

addressing

creator

concerns

saying,

we

really

appreciate

the

honest

discussion.

Not

sure

you

do.

No,

but

anyway.

And

then

saying

that

they're

going

to

say

something.

Well,

as

we

record

tomorrow,

that

is

the

last

post

from

them

on

threads.

So

we're

not

quite

sure

what

it

is

that

they

are

going

to

be

saying

today,

Friday,

May

16th.

But

yeah,

it's.

Do

you

think

they

handled

it

well

or

what?

What

do

you

think

the

issue

is

here?

I

think.

I

don't

think

Spotify

did

anything

wrong,

actually.

Personally,

I

think

the

only

thing

they

did

was

not

give

anyone

a

heads

up.

But

I

think

it's

a

data

point,

right?

It's

you

have

a

download

number,

you

have

a

play

number.

But

actually,

here's

my

bigger

question

to

you,

James,

in

the

Spotify

for

Creators

Dashboard,

do

you

actually,

as

the

creator

get

better

metrics

like

listen

time

percent

completed?

Yeah,

they

do

and

they've

got

some

pretty

good

metrics

that

are

very

Spotify

centric.

So

for

example,

There's

a

thing

called

Spotify

Discovery.

So

for

this

show,

over

the

last

month,

2,662

people

have

seen

our

show

in

their

app,

176

people

are

interested

in

it,

apparently,

and

102

people

have

consumed

it,

which

is

an

interesting.

Which

is

an

interesting

thing.

But

you

also

get

things

like

analytics.

So

you

get

the

analytics

are

both

plays,

whatever

a

play

is,

consumption

hours.

So

we

know

exactly

how

long,

you

know,

how

much

of

this

show

has

been

consumed,

how

many

followers

we've

added

in

the

last

30

days,

and

the

audience

size

as

well.

So

you

do

have

some

pretty

good

data

in

terms

of

that.

You're

asking

about

specifics

for

individual,

individual

episodes,

and

you

also

have

that

information

in

there

as

well.

So

you've

got

information

about

each

particular

episode,

how

long

was

that

consumed

for,

and

all

that

kind

of

stuff.

So

they've

got

some

very

good

data,

you

know,

hidden

away

in

the

background,

certainly.

So

I

don't

see

the

problem.

It's

a

number,

right?

People

don't

like

to

reveal

their

numbers

about

plays.

That's

transparency.

If

you

don't

like

it,

the

only

thing

that

Spotify

could

do

is

to

provide

a

user

setting

which

says

to

the

creator,

you

can

turn

this

off.

Right?

That's

all

it

would

do.

Yeah,

no,

I

would

agree

with

that.

And,

you

know,

I

mean,

you

can

very

clearly

see.

So

this

show,

for

example,

this

show

may

be

slightly

too

long.

Sam.

34%

are

still

listening

by

the

end

of

the

first

quarter,

17%

still

listening

by

the

end

of

second

quarter,

10%

listening

by

the

end

of

the

third

quarter,

and

only

14%

actually

complete

the

show.

Interestingly

though,

what

you

can

see

from

the

audience

graph,

and

I'm

just

talking

about

last

week,

for

example,

here.

So

what

you

can

see

from

the

audience

graph

is

you

can

see

some

real

sort

of

chunks

now

where

people

have

forwarded

through

because

of

the

chapters.

So

you

can

see

a

little

peak

where

some

of

the

conversations

were.

A

little

peek

where

we

were

went

into

the

tech

stuff

and

all

that

kind

of

stuff.

So

you

can

very

clearly

see

that

chapters

work,

which

is

nice.

But,

yeah,

so

there's

a

ton

of

information

there.

I

suppose

there

are

two

things

that

people

are

concerned

about.

One

of

them

is

that

the

data

has

just

been

released

and

it's

just,

okay,

we're

doing

it

and

we're

doing

it

now,

and

maybe

Spotify

should

have

given

a

heads

up,

which

is,

you

know,

as

you

say.

The

other

thing,

though,

is

that

we

don't

actually

know

how

plays

are

calculated.

We

know

that

plays

of

trailers

and

clips

aren't

included,

which

I

think

is

the

right

way

of

doing

things.

Spotify

have

given

a

little

bit

more

information

this

week

in

terms

of

how

they're

worked

out

and

they're

worked

out

the

true

fans

way,

which

I

find

amusing.

So

a

play

is

only

counted

once

per

user

per

session,

per

episode.

So

if

you

pause,

if

you

play

an

episode

and

then

you

pause

it

and

then

you

start

playing

it

again,

that's

one

play.

Now,

interestingly,

that's

two

plays

on

Apple.

And

so

I

did

a

little

bit

of

work

on

this

show

and

I

thought,

okay,

what

is

this

show?

You

know,

how

many

plays

has

this

show

got

on

Apple

Podcasts

and

on

Spotify?

And

interestingly,

over

the

last

60

days

we've

had

a

total

audience

size,

quite

a

small

audience

size

because

of

these

two

platforms

aren't

really

used

by

our

audience

of

185

people

on

both

Spotify

and

on

Apple

Podcasts.

So

that's

nice.

So

we've.

So

we've

got

some

really

nice

equal

numbers

here.

So

the

play

count

on

Spotify

715

and

the

play

count

on

Apple

2,800.

Almost

four

times

as

many

plays

from

the

same

audience

size

because

Apple

measures

a

play

differently

to

Spotify.

So

I

think

it's

good

if

you

just

want

to

compare

shows

on

Spotify

itself,

because

you

can

see

Spotify's

random

plays

number.

But

I

don't

think

it's

particularly

good

if

you

want

to

then

compare

plays

on

Spotify

with

plays

on

Apple

because

they

are

worked

out

obviously

in

a

very

completely

different

way.

Well,

most

people

won't

use

their

play

count

anyway

because

the

number's

lower

than

their

download

number.

So

people

like

to

say

big

numbers.

So,

oh

yes,

10,000

downloads,

2,800

plays.

No,

I'll

stick

to

10,000

downloads

then.

Yes.

I

don't

think

people

will

use

it

anyway.

Yes.

Although

there's

an

interesting

question.

I

was

just

wondering

whether

Buzzsprout

tells

us

how

many

downloads

we've

actually

from

Spotify.

It

probably

would,

but

I

can

only

see

the

top

five

there.

But

OP3

will

also

tell

us.

So

I'm

wondering

how

many

downloads

we've

actually

had

from

Spotify

and

whether

that

correlates

to

the,

to

the

plays

or

to

indeed

anything

else.

But

of

course

it's

not

necessarily

going

to.

But

Spotify

is

tiny

for

us.

It's

6%

of

our

plays.

Apple

Podcasts,

interestingly,

way

bigger,

32%

of

our

plays.

So

what

does

that

tell

you?

That

tells

you

that

Apple

Podcasts

has

four

times

the

amount

of

downloads,

but

seemingly

in

Terms

of

audience

has

the

same

amount

of

audience

as

Spotify's

numbers.

Of

course,

neither

of

these

platforms

actually

use

the

IAB

anyway,

so

it

makes

the

IAB

look

a

little

bit

ridiculous.

But

still.

But

there

we

are,

3.25%

to

trufans,

which

is

always

nice.

Ah,

well,

you

know,

we're

coming

up

the

back,

you

know,

early

days

as.

Yeah,

yes,

the

tortoise

and

the

hare.

You

know,

let's

not

race

along

too

soon.

Indeed.

And

will

the

AIB

be

the

company

that

is

going

to

unify

this?

I

don't

know

whether

the

IAB

will.

I

mean,

the

AIB

certainly

won't.

It's

run

by

a

nice

man

called

Simon.

Yes,

okay.

Yes,

yes,

yes.

The

association

of

International

Broadcasters.

Hello.

Yes.

But

no.

So

I'm

not

sure

that

the

IAB

necessarily

will

because

Spotify

hasn't

signed

up,

Apple

haven't

signed

up,

and

YouTube

haven't

signed

up.

So,

you

know,

at

the

end

of

the

day,

I

mean,

maybe

it

comes

down

to

us

as

an

industry

shouting

enough

to

get

it

fixed,

but

on

the

other

side,

you

know,

Spotify

just

wants

a

number.

And

the

only

number

that

Spotify

can

actually

calculate,

the

same

as

YouTube

can

actually

calculate,

is

just

the

number

that

they

can

see

on

their

own

platform.

And,

you

know,

and

true

fans

is

doing

exactly

the

same

as

well.

But,

you

know,

at

the

very

least,

if

there's

something

that

says

plays,

let's

make

sure

that

we're

working

out

a

play

in

the

same

way.

And

clearly

Apple

and

Spotify

aren't.

So

perhaps

that's

one

thing

that

we

can

hopefully

work

on.

The

reason

I

can't

remember

the

anachronym

IAB

is

because

it's

so

irrelevant

to

me.

But

anyway,

hey,

hey.

They

are

though

working

on

a

new

thing

called

Attention

Measurement

Guidelines.

The

document

which

I've

taken

a

read

through

doesn't

mention

the

word

podcast

once,

which

I

think

says

quite

a

lot

there.

But

in

terms

of

being

able

to

actually

say

whether

or

not

somebody

is

actually

paying

attention

to

it

or

not.

But

I

would

just

sort

of

put

the

brakes

on

that

and

say

the

point

of

a

podcast

is

it's

entertainment

for

your

ears

when

your

eyes

are

busy.

So

the

point

of

a

podcast

is,

yes,

you

are

paying

attention

to

it

in

a

way,

but

you're

also

paying

attention

to

the

road

because

you're

driving

at

70

miles

an

hour

down

a

busy

motorway

and

you

want

to

avoid

dying.

So,

you

know,

there

are

things

that

you

are

paying

attention

to

when

you're

listening

to

a

podcast,

which

is

very

different

to

watching

a

YouTube

video

or,

you

know,

looking

at

an

ad

banner

or

whatever

it

is.

Well,

I

read

that

report

because

I've

been

involved

in

attention

metrics

for

about

20

years.

You

know,

when

I

spoke

to

Steve

Pratt,

we

had

a

long

conversation

about

attention

and

it's

something

that

I

focus

a

lot

on

for

what

we

do

with

true

fans.

And,

and

so

in

a

word,

when

I

read

that

whole

report,

my,

my

summary

was,

don't

waste

your

time

and

attention.

It's

totally

rubbish.

I

have

not

seen

a

bigger

bag

of

rubbish

written.

I

mean,

the

eyeball

twitch

moment,

I

know,

exactly.

By

the

way,

that

was

10.

Really?

That

was

10

words

and

not

just

one

word,

but.

Yes,

exactly.

It's,

it's

all,

it's

all

very

focused

on

video.

Of

course

it

is,

because

that's

really

what

the

advertising

industry

cares

about.

Hence

why

we're

all

jumping

to

do

video

and

we're,

you

know,

rushing

around

with

our,

with

our

sweaty

cameras

and

everything

else

going.

We've

got

to

turn

everything,

everything

into

video

because

the

advertisers

are

telling

us.

And

at

the

end

of

the

day,

that's

not

what

podcasting

is

all

about,

in

my

humble

opinion.

But

if

you

want

to

make

cheap

crap

television,

go

ahead,

be

my

guest.

That's

not

necessarily

what

a

podcast

is.

I

think

it's

more

quick,

quick

money.

Anyway,

moving

on,

James

Acast

have

launched

this

new

feature

called

Talent

Voice

Ads.

It's

authentic

voices

in

Programmatic

Audio.

What

do

you

think,

James?

Yeah,

well,

you

know,

certainly

when

I

used

to

write

radio

commercials,

sometimes

we

would

want

a

recognizable

voice

to

do

an

ad

for

a

local

advertiser

because

all

of

a

sudden

that

meant

that

that

local

advertiser

seemed

really,

really

big.

If

you

had

Tom

Baker

doing

an

ad

or

if

you

had.

I

think

we

had

Jeremy

Brett

who

used

to

play

Sherlock

Holmes

once

doing

an

ad

and

I

made

the

mistake

of

booking

him

after

lunch.

That

was.

Yes.

What

is

this

I'm

supposed

to

be

saying,

dear

boy?

Anyway,

there

we

are.

It'd

be

nice

to

get

somebody

from

ACAST

on.

So

as

if

by

magic,

you

had

a

word

with

Michael

Bayston

from

ACAST

and

you

started

by

asking

him,

what

are

talent

voiced

ads?

Talentvoiced

ads

is

an

ad

format

that

is

executed

by

programmatic.

It's

a

30

second

ad

spot,

which

differently

for

us,

we

have

the

ad

voiced

by

one

of

our

wonderful

podcasters,

by

the

talent

themselves.

So

it's

different

to

our

sponsorship

format,

which

is

a

60

second

long

host

read,

if

you

like,

which

is

from

that

host

just

specifically

demonstrating

that

a

product

or

A

service

is

sponsoring

their

show

instead.

Talent

Voice

Dads.

As

I

said,

it's

an

ad

spot,

but

the

brands

are

licensing

the

voice

of

a

much

loved

podcaster.

Now

give

me

some

names

that

might

be

available

within

the

talent

pool.

Certainly.

Well,

in

fact,

the

way

we

try

and

do

things

at

ACAST

is,

you

know,

we'll

dream

up

an

idea

or

we'll

think

about

an

opportunity

in

market

and

then

we'll,

we'll

look

to

have

like

a

really

strong

due

diligence

and

then

testing

period.

So

in

fact

we've

already

gone

live

with

Talent

Voice

Dads

in

a

number

of,

of

our

test

markets.

So

that's

the

test

markets

with

the

us,

Australia,

a

few

others

as

well.

So

actually

the

talent

that's

already

got

involved

with

Talent

Voice

Dance

includes

podcasters

like

Couples

Therapy

we

mean

well

and

Equity

Mates

and

many

others

as

well.

We've

actually

seen

this

lift

off

very

quickly.

So

we've

gone

very

quickly

from

a

test

period

to

the

sort

of

live

approach

with

lots

of

different

talent

being

approached

by

our

teams

on

behalf

of

brands.

Now

is

this

an

AI?

Is

this

a

voice

that

you

license?

For

example,

Katherine

Ryan

goes

in

a

studio,

she

does

10

lines,

we've

now

got

her

AI

voice

and

now

you

can

put

scripts

and

scripts

and

scripts

of

ads

against

her

voice.

Or

is

this

actually

Katherine

Ryan

doing

each

ad?

Yeah,

it's

a

great

question

and

I

can

completely

understand

where

it's

coming

from,

you

know,

with

all

of

this

in

the

news

about

generative

AI

and

cloning

and

so

forth.

So

no,

to

be

absolute

clear,

Talent

Voice

ads

is

only

the

voice

of

the

hosts

themselves.

So

these

are

podcasters

who

are

exclusively

signed

to

the

ACARS

marketplace.

Yeah,

so

it

works

is

very

quickly

is

that

brands

will

brief

us

on

their

products

or

services

and

then

our

wonderful

in

house

account

management

and

planning

teams,

they'll

make

a

matchup

process

really

in

order

to

try

and

figure

out

which

would

be

the

best

talent

for

that.

And

then

they

will

approach

our

talent

via

the

proprietary

internal

tools

that

we've

created

for

the

purpose.

Yeah,

and

then

they

would

record

fresh

ad

reads

for

each

different

campaign.

Again,

being

that

they

are

talent,

they're

not

going

to

be

cheap.

So

how

are

you

pricing

this

against

a

normal

host

red

ad

or

a

programmatic

CPM

rate?

What's

the

difference

going

to

be?

Yeah,

definitely.

So

in

terms

of

our

sponsorship,

which

as

I

mentioned

before,

that's

a

much

longer

piece,

that's

a

full

on

host

read.

So

for

example,

in

the

UK

they

come

in

at

a

price

of

around

£40

CPM

now,

your

standard

advertising

spot,

which

is

like

a

brand

spot,

if

you

like,

which

is

run

by

programmatic

with

limited

targeting,

that

might

be

anywhere

in

the

region

of

10

to

12,

13

pounds,

but

talent

voice

ads,

because

if

you

think

about

it,

it

exists

in

that

medium

ground

we're

going

out

to

market

in

the

UK,

for

example,

at

£25

CPM.

Wow.

And

it's

very

similar

in

other

markets

around

the

world

because

of

course,

this

is

a

global

solution.

So

this

is

now

available

globally.

Now,

there

is

one

other

element

to

this,

which

is

that

we

do

ask

for

a

minimum

spend.

And

that's

also

relevant

because

the

way

we

execute

this

is

via

programmatic

guarantee.

So

I

know

we'll

probably

get

to

the

weeds

in

a

bit,

but

that

is

crucial

because

we

need

to

ensure,

you

know,

with

something

this

premium,

that

there

is

a

specific

amount

of

budget

running

against

us.

Now,

what

that

means

is

that

in

terms

of

our

internal

financials,

we're

able

to

ensure

that

the

hosts

get

a

really

good

host

read

fee,

if

you

like.

Because

the

way

we

calculate

that

is

that's

taken

from

part

of

the

the

revenue

and

then

the

rest

of

the

revenue

goes

on

all

of

the

shows

that

this

ad

will

run

across.

Now

look,

we

all

are

in

the

market

of

making

money.

We

all

sell

ads,

we

all

make

podcasts,

again,

hoping

to

get

some

return.

But

maybe

I'm

the

skeptic

in

the

room.

One

of

the

things

that

I

do

with

many

things

right

now

is

I

skip

ads,

or

being

fortunate

enough,

I

pay

to

not

have

ads.

So

do

you

think

that

the

relationship

with

the

talent

voice

is

going

to

lead

to

a

higher

engagement

of

listening

with

these

ads?

Yeah,

I

think

that

is

a

very

interesting

question.

Ultimately,

people

do

talk

about

ads

being

skipped

quite

a

lot.

But

inevitably,

what

you

find

with

virtually

all

digital

advertising

is

that

beyond

the

metrics

campaigns,

they

deliver

a

certain

amount

of

return

on

investment.

And

that

is

something

that

we

see

with

podcasting.

In

fact,

it's

something

that

we

see

particularly

with

any

podcast

ads

that

use

the

talent.

So,

for

example,

you'll

have

seen

in

our

press

release

that

one

of

the

key

benefits

of

using

talent

within

your

advertising

is

that

get

a

huge

amount

of

loyalty

from

the

listeners,

right?

So

the

listeners

don't

want

to

skip

these

ads

because

what

they

want

to

do

is

they

want

to

hear

from

their

much

loved

and

much

treasured

hosts,

basically

with

whom

they

have

this

incredible

parasocial

relationship.

So,

for

example,

we

put

out

a

great

piece

of

research

last

year,

the

podcast

Pulse,

which

had

that

four

in

five

people

consider

a

brand

promoted

by

their

favorite

host.

So

all

we're

doing

really

is

we're

taking

that

relationship

from

that

much

deeper

relationship

example

with

the

sponsorships,

we're

taking

it

to

talent

voiced

ads,

which

is

obviously

it's

a

shorter

period

of

time

that

the

talent

is

speaking

to

them,

but

that's

made

up

for

by

an

enormous

amount

of

scale

that

can

be

achieved

for

the

advertiser

and

indeed

for

the

host,

actually.

Because

let's

not

forget,

this

is

a

great

promotional

tool

for

the

host

because

their

voice

will

be

heard

across

the

entire

network.

So

we

tend

not

to

worry

too

much

about

skipping.

We

instead

focus

back

on

trusted

third

party

measurement

solutions

that

we

use

in

terms

of

things

like

brand

lift

attribution

and

of

course,

seeing

brands

rebooking.

And

the

great

news

is

that

one

of

the

very

first

brands

that

tested

out

this

talent

voice

dads

with

us,

within

two

weeks

they'd

come

back

and

they'd

rebooked

for

the

rest

of

the

year.

So

I

think

that's

a

great

example

of

a

brand

enjoying

a

new

format

that

clearly

delivers

results.

And

where

are

you

going

to

extend

it?

So

you've

just

come

out

of

the

beta

trial,

which

you

said

has

been

working

in

our

live.

It

sounded

like

you

were

working

in

English

language

only

territories

right

now.

Will

this

go

beyond

into

other

ACAST

platform

territories?

Absolutely,

yeah.

So

as

of

today,

this

is

now

available

globally.

So

anyone

who's

listening

to

this

and

who's

interested

in

this,

please

do

get

in

touch

with

us

via

salesacast.com

or

indeed

with

local

sales

teams

that

ACAST

has

all

over

the

world.

In

theory,

all

of

our

podcasters

around

the

world

are

up

for

this.

But

of

course,

one

of

the

crucial

things

we

do

at

acos

is

we

give

the

talent

the

choice,

basically.

So

if

they

want

to

get

involved

in

a

fantastic

new

way

to

make

money

for

themselves,

and

therefore

they

can

make

more

podcasts,

they're

very

welcome

to

do

so.

So

do

you

also

geographically

fence

these?

So

if

I

want

to

campaign

just

in

the

uk,

or

if

I

want

to

roll

it

out

more

globally,

what's

the

difference?

I'll

be

interested

to

know

what

that

minimum

cost

is,

but

is

there

an

increase

in

that

minimum

cost?

Yeah,

well,

I

can

give

you

a

straight

up

answer

to

that.

So,

for

example,

in

the

UK

we've

decided

that

the

minimum

spend

for

this

should

be

£25,000,

whereas

in

the

US

we've

decided

on

a

minimum

spend

of

$50,000.

Now,

every

single

market

will

have

their

own

minimum

for

this.

And

again,

you

know,

minimums

with

programmatic

guarantees

is

not

a

rare

thing.

It

really

isn't.

So

for

our

standard

audio

ad

campaigns,

all

of

our

markets

have

a

minimum

for

running

via

pg.

It's

just,

it's

a

little

bit

more

for

this

because,

of

course,

it's

the

talent

who

is

speaking.

It's

that

much

more

premium

and

influential,

if

you

like.

Now,

in

terms

of

the

targeting

piece,

yes,

all

of

this

will

be

targeted

by

jio.

Now,

at

this

early

stage,

the

targeting

that's

available

is

essentially

it's

sort

of

basic

ad

server

stuff,

so,

you

know,

time,

JIO

device,

et

cetera.

And

then

we've

also

got

ACAST

contextual

targeting

with

this.

So

very

often

a

brand

might

think,

well,

you

know,

I

really

love

this

particular

host,

but

I

think

it

would

probably

work

best

if

this

ad,

which

is

talking

about

my

product

or

service,

which

is

from

that

particular

host,

is

if

it

goes

out

in,

say,

the

comedy

vertical,

or

if

it

goes

out

across

lifestyle

or

news

or

politics

or

whatever

it

might

be.

Now,

in

the

future,

we're

looking

to

improve

the

targeting

on

this,

but

for

the

moment,

that's

a

great

position

for

us

to

start.

And

we're

seeing

a

lot

of

the

initial

campaigns

using

targeting

of

that

sort.

It

is.

It

dawned

on

me

when

you

were

talking

through

all

the

categories

that

certain

voices

will

hold

better

within

certain

genres.

I

mean,

no

offense

to

Catherine

Ryan,

but

her

in

a

news

or

a

business

podcast

would

not

hold

the

gravitas

of,

say,

a

other

person,

maybe

a

Stephen

Fry

or

a

newsreader.

Is

that

something

that

you

would

agree

with,

or

is

Catherine

going

to

be

across

the

board

just

based

on

the

customer?

Well,

I

think

that's

an

interesting

way

of

putting

it

because

really

what

you're

talking

about

is

a

comms

planning

challenge

that

really.

And

ultimately

the

way

we

work

at

ACAST

is

very

much

in

cahoots

with

our

customers.

If

they

come

to

us

and

they

say,

my

advertiser

here

has

got

a

real

hankering

for

Katherine

Bryan.

Okay,

they

absolutely

love

her

and

they

think

there's

a

real

match

there.

But

we

also

want

mega

scale.

We

want

this

to

go

across

the

entire

network.

We're

not

going

to

stand

in

the

way

of

that.

And

actually,

someone

like

Katherine

Ryan,

I

think,

would

have

mass

appeal

across

virtually

everything

because

she

is

such

a

household

name.

But

let's

not

forget,

though,

one

of

the

great

benefits

of

podcasts

is

that

we've

got

thousands

of

podcasters

who

are

not

as

well

known

as

Catherine,

and

they

deserve

the

opportunity

to

speak

on

behalf

of

brands.

And

frankly,

some

of

their

audiences

are

probably

even

more

loyal

to

them

than

they

would

be,

perhaps

to

Catherine.

But

that'll

be

another

thing

I

think

worth

thinking

about.

That's

definitely

a

trend

that

I

have

personally

seen,

you

know,

over

the

last

10

years

is,

is

a

brand's

understanding

that

it's

not

just

about

dropping

big

cash

on

big

names.

It

is

about

using

so

called

micro

influencers

or

smaller

things,

but

who

might

have,

say

50

to

100,000

followers.

So

really,

are

we

saying

this

is

the

advent

of

what

I

would

think

of

as

TV

advertising

brought

to

podcasting?

It's

that

quality

advertising

from

a

branded

name

that

lends

itself

to

the

podcast

as

opposed

to

the

host

readout

of

the

individual

who's

just

reading

out

within

their

own

podcast.

I

think

that's

a

fantastic

take,

actually.

I

really

do.

Yeah,

most

definitely.

We

keep

talking

about

Catherine,

but

obviously

there

are

many,

many

other

comedians

who've

had.

There's

a

long

history

of

comedians

appearing

in

fantastic

T

ads.

It's

probably

something.

One

of

the

reasons

why

I

even

went

into

marketing

and

advertising

actually.

So

I

think

that's

a

really

good

take

on

it.

I

think

the

thing

I

would

add

to

this

though

is

that

it's

also

the

dawn

of

talent

being

aligned

with

the

efficiency

of

programmatic

technology

as

well.

And

so

we've

not

really

touched

on

that.

But

one

of

the

things

that

I

said

in

my

LinkedIn

post

actually

earlier

today

is

that,

you

know,

what

we're

doing

with

this

is,

you

know,

we're

bringing

the

opportunity

for

that

hugely

influential

element

of

talent

within

advertising

to

now

be

available

to

programmatic

buyers

and

crucially,

for

them

to

be

able

to

run

it

in

omnichannel

campaigns

alongside

the

display

advertising

they're

doing

on

web

and

mobile,

the

video

advertising

they're

doing

across

various

different

platforms,

the

stuff

they're

doing

additional

out

of

home,

the

connected

TV

podcasting

really

is

a

big

part

of

the

omnichannel

for

those

programmatic

buyers

now.

So

it

made

sense

that

we

could

also

bring

them

the

power

of

talent

voice.

But

then

the

other

piece

to

it

as

well

is

that

there

are

undoubtedly

some

budgets

out

there

that

are

controlled

by

programmatic

buyers

that

may

not

have

been

able

to

come

to

some

of

these

creators

in

quite

the

same

way

now.

And

I

can

say,

you

know,

from

this

test

period,

we've

had

this

clear

evidence

that

programmatic

buyers

are

bringing

incremental

budgets

to

us

because

of

this

format,

which

again

means

new

budgets

going

to

our

podcasters

so

that

they

can

create

new

shows

and

then

bring

in

new

and

diverse

audiences

for

our

advertisers.

So

hopefully

this

is

a

really

nice

and

very

positive

addition

to

Our

open

ecosystem

offering.

One

last

question.

If

I've

got

a

podcast

and

I've

got

multiple

ads

within

it,

so

that

can

happen.

We

haven't

quite

reached

radio

saturation

thankfully

with

ads

every

15

minutes,

but

they

are

getting

more

and

more

within

the

same

podcast.

If

I

listen

to

certain

podcasts,

I

now

get

five

or

six

ads.

If

you

have

a

Catherine

Ryan,

sticking

with

the

example

we

have,

you

wouldn't

want

the

same

ad

five

times.

You

would

then

have

multiple

ads.

How

does

that

fit

within

that?

Does

that

mean

you're

happy

to

have

that

as

a

premium

ad

early

up

and

then

maybe

some

other

ads

that

are

maybe

lower

down

in

terms

of

value?

Again,

any

thoughts

on

how

you

see

the

premium

ad

that

is

this

new

talent

ad

going

in,

it's

positioning

maybe

at

the

front

and

then

other

ads

within

it.

Any

thoughts?

We've

not

gone

that

complicated

with

it

actually,

but

I'm

glad

that

you're

thinking

about

it

because

hopefully

that

means

lots

of

other

people

are

thinking

about

it

too.

To

be

really

honest

with

you.

I

love

the

way

you're

thinking

about

it

because

it

is

a

premium

offering

and

therefore

it

does

deserve

that

sort

of

respect.

But

I

think

the

way

we've

decided

to

do

it

really

is

that

sponsorship

ads

at

that

super

high

premium,

which

are

the

host

is

sponsoring

the

show.

It's

a

super

deep

relationship

that

goes

on

for

a

minimum

of

four

weeks.

That

will

always

take

priority.

Now

we

do

offer

the

opportunity

to

our

podcasters

to

sort

of

decide

where

ads

will

go,

but

generally

speaking

that's

the

best

practice.

Then

we

roll

from

that

into

audio

ads.

Now

as

this

format

rolls

out,

what

you

will

find

is

you'll

see

a

mixture

really.

So

there'll

be

brand

spots

and

there'll

be

these

talent

voiced

ad

spots

sort

of

intermixed

with

each

other.

We

think

that

the

premium

we've

put

on

this

in

terms

of

CPM

is

more

to

do

with

the

talent

voicing

the

ad

rather

than

the

position,

if

you

like.

Now

in

my

career,

some

years

ago

I

worked

in

TV

for

a

bit,

so

I

certainly

know

where

you're

coming

from

in

terms

of

the

in

break

and

all

that

stuff.

As

we

know

in

tv,

significant

premiums

are

attached

to

first

in

break,

but

that

if

you

think

about

it,

is

more

about

the

positioning

rather

than

the

content

of

the

ad,

if

you

like.

So

we

believe

that

the,

the

premium

on

the

CPM

here

reflects

the

premium

nature

of

it.

One

other

thing

I'll

mention

as

well

is

that

we've

decided

in

order

to

scale

this

to

go

fully

scripted

on

these

right

so

that's

another

bit

of

clear

water

between

this

solution

and

sponsorship,

where

sponsorship

very

often

with

60

seconds,

we

encourage

the

host

to

do

something

interesting

and

to

bring

their

own

flavor

to

it.

I

mean,

some

of

our

real

OGs,

like

Adam

Buxton

and

folks

like

that,

who

are

particularly

well

known

for

that,

with

Talent

Voice

dads,

it's

the

voice

of

the

host.

But

we

are

scripting

this

and

that

works

well,

I

think,

both

for

the

host

and

also

for

the

brand

from

an

efficiency

perspective

as

well,

basically.

Now,

Michael,

remind

me

again,

if

I

want

to

go

and

find

out

more

about

what

acast's

doing

here,

where

would

I

go?

Certainly.

So,

first

and

foremost,

you

can

find

us

across

all

of

our

socials.

We've

got

a

great

post

out

on

LinkedIn

about

this

particular

thing,

but

of

course

we've

also

got

the

Acast

website

as

well.

Acast.com,

which

has

just

had

a

lovely

makeover

recently.

So

everyone

go

and

check

that

out.

It's

beautiful.

Super

proud

of

that.

And

then

of

course,

once

you've

had

a

look,

you

know,

make

sure

you

get

in

touch

with

us,

you

know,

fire

us.

All

those

questions

over

get

in

touch

with

us@salescast.com

that's

the

best,

best

way

to

do

it.

And

I

think

just

in

sort

of

terms

of

signing

off,

our

belief

here

is

that

Acast,

as

I

said,

you

know,

it's

nothing

new

about

putting

Talent

Voice

into

Programmatic,

but

we

think

that

because

we

of

acos

position

as

a

technology

company

and

the

world's

leading

independent

pure

play

podcast

platform,

that

no

one

else

can

deliver

this

quite

like

us

in

terms

of

the

scale,

creativity

and

depth

of

our

network.

Plus

of

course,

this

rather

accommodating

but

premium

price

point

we

talked

about.

The

other

thing

I'd

say

as

well

is

this

is

proving

popular

already.

Brands

really

need

to

get

on

the

bandwagon.

We've

got

a

long

pipeline

already

in

our

test

markets

and

other

markets

in

Central

Europe,

Germany,

France,

the

North

Nordics,

going

out,

Asia

Pacific

and

so

forth.

You

know,

we've

got

brands

beating

our

door

down.

In

fact,

you

know,

our

revenue

pipeline

is,

is

well

into

the

six

figures

now,

so

we're

super

happy

with

that.

So

we

would

love

to

hear

from

other

brands

to

get

involved

too.

Now,

I

do

have

one

last

question.

One

of

the

things

that

we

as

consumers

do

is

build

up

association

with

a

individual

celebrity

to

a

brand.

We've

seen

this

throughout

the

years.

You

know,

I

can't

think

of

who

he

is,

but

the

Go

Compare

man

is

associated

to

Go

Compare

the

brand.

If

he

Then

went

and

did

another

brand.

It

would

be

a

jocksta

post.

My

brain

would

explode.

I

wouldn't

understand

what

he's

doing

doing

that

ad.

Is

there

a

danger

that

host

red

brands

can

associate

to

a

particular,

but

then

you

get

multiple

brands

going

to

particular

celebrity.

Does

that

cause

confusion?

Or

is

it

a

case

of

you

increase

the

supply

of

celebrity

and

therefore

actually

eventually

it

doesn't

matter?

Yeah,

it

is

an

interesting

one.

Well,

look,

I

mean,

in

a

way,

the

proof

is

in

the

pudding,

right?

So

actually

our

very

first

brand

partner

who

decided

to

test

this

out,

they

went

large.

Now,

it

was

in

America,

so

you're

hardly

surprising.

But

we'd

sort

of

hope

that

maybe

a

first

customer

would

test

out

with

one

voice,

with

one

deal.

But

instead

they

decided

to

go

large

and

they

ran

six

different

voices

all

at

the

same

time.

Now,

there

was

method

behind

the

madness,

actually.

Again,

it's

a

comms

planning

challenge

here

because

they

wanted

to

speak

to

different

audiences,

basically.

So,

for

example,

in

order

to

speak

to

a

Hispanic

and

Spanish

speaking

audience

in

the

States,

they

decided

to

work

with

our

podcast,

Serega

Las

Duras.

So

that,

that

was

good.

But

then

they

also

used

some

other

ones

as

well,

like

couple

therapies,

and

each

of

these,

you

know,

speak

to

different

audiences.

And

again,

I

think

that's

one

of

the

crucial

reasons

why

podcasting

is

growing

so

fast,

is

because

of

these

diverse

audiences.

I

think

the

other

thing

I'd

say

is

I'd

sort

of

speak

again

to

our

podcast

Pulse

report

that

we

brought

out

last

year.

So

we've

already

talked

about

4

and

5

of

listeners

will

consider

a

brand

or

product

promoted

by

their

favorite

host.

But,

you

know,

we've

got

some

other

fantastic

stats

as

well,

like,

you

know,

one

in

two

people

trust

recommendations

from

podcast

hosts,

full

stop.

So,

you

know,

yes,

I

completely

understand

where

you're

coming

from

in

terms

of

the,

the

connection

between

certain

talent

and

certain

products.

But

I

think

that

builds

over

time.

But

I

think

the

most

crucial

thing

is

actually

just

that

position

that

podcasts

provides

in

general

in

people's

mind

space.

So

another

stat

that

came

from

that

result

from

those

results,

which

is

really

interesting,

was

about

the

fact

that

podcasts

ranked

top

for

media

that

provide

a

sense

of

community.

So

that

was

ahead

of

YouTube,

ahead

of

social

media,

and

indeed

ahead

of

our

friends

in

radio

and

television.

So

I

think

what

we're

doing

here

is

we're

leveraging

the

power

of

podcasting,

the

diverse

number

of

hosts,

hosts

that

then

give

us

diverse

audiences.

So

I

don't

think

brands

should

worry

too

much

about

having,

I

suppose

what

you

Might

describe

as

that

cognitive

dissonance

that

you

were

worried

about

them.

Indeed.

Look,

lovely

to

talk

to

you,

Michael.

Nice

to

meet

you.

Will

you

be

at

the

London

Podcast

show

as

well?

Yes,

I

will

be.

Actually,

there's

going

to

be

acasters

all

over

the

show.

We've

got

quite

a

few

panels

going

on

and

I'm

actually

on

a

panel

with

our

good

friends

at

adswizz

on

day

one

talking

about

Programmatic

Audio

in

particular.

And

there

may

be

a

few

other

panels

as

well

going

on

which

we're

all

looking.

And

will

you

be

attending

the

LP

Bar?

I

certainly

will.

Or

otherwise,

as

it's

known

by

its

proper

name,

the

Acast

Arms.

Yes,

of

course,

yes,

yes.

Look,

Michael,

thank

you

very

much.

Lovely

to

meet

you.

Look

forward

to

meeting

you

at

the

London

Podcast

Show.

Congratulations

on

the

launch

of

this

new

programmatic

ad

platform.

And

yeah,

I

look

forward

to

speaking

to

you

again

probably

in

six

months

or

maybe

12

months

to

find

out

the

success

of

what

this

program,

son.

Fantastic.

We

can't

wait

for

it.

Thank

you

very

much

again,

Sam.

Cheers.

The

Pod

News

weekly

review

with

Buzzsprout.

With

Buzzsprout,

start

podcasting.

Keep

podcasting.

Moving

on.

Now,

YouTube

ran

a

survey

over

the

weekend,

James,

to

make

YouTube

podcasts

even

better.

What

was

the

survey

about?

Yes,

it

was.

So

I

was

tipped

this.

I

was.

I

was

tipped

off

by

a

Pod

News

Weekly

Review

listener

who

very

kindly

screenshotted

all

of

the

questions

that

YouTube

were

asking.

He

was

basically

interested

in

fan

membership

programs.

So

things

like

Twitch,

patreon,

Facebook

support,

YouTube

channel

memberships,

for

example.

He

was

wondering

whether,

you

know,

you'd

taken

part

in

a

paid

brand

partnership,

for

example,

or

sponsorship.

And

it

asked

some

interesting

questions

about

short

form

podcast

content.

Not

sure

what

short

form

podcast

content

is,

but

doing

a

five

minute

show

every

single

day,

I

suppose

I

should

know.

So

anyway,

that

was

interesting.

I

mean,

obviously

true

fans,

you're

talking

a

lot

about,

what's

your

phrase?

Monetizing

fandoms.

Yes,

that

is

the

phrase

that

pays,

as

somebody

once

said.

No,

I

see

a

massive

trend

right

now.

We

talked

about

Patreon

substack

last

week.

I

think

they

are

in

the

conversation

now

very

firmly.

When

you

talk

about

podcast,

my

three

pillars

are

content,

commerce

and

community.

And

I

see

a

massive

move

right

now

towards

paid

subscriptions.

I

think

more

and

more

people

are

moving

to

quality

content.

And

I

think

it

then

brings

up

this

whole

thing

that

you

raised,

James,

which

is

if

people

are

paying

for

ad,

free

quality

content,

what

does

this

mean

for

advertising?

Who's

going

to

be

left

for

the

advertisers

to

go

and

target.

Yeah.

And

I

think,

you

know,

I

mean,

certainly

there

will

be

a

percentage

of

people

who

will

pay

to

get

rid

of

the

ads,

as

I

mostly

do.

I

either

pay

to

get

rid

of

the

ads

and

pay

the

creator

or

I

pay

tools

to

get

rid

of

the

ads

and

the

creator

gets

no

money.

But

I

don't

suppose

that

I'm

alone,

you

know,

in

terms

of

that.

So,

yeah,

I

think,

you

know,

interesting

on

that,

on

that

side

and

I

think

you're

absolutely

right.

You

know,

there

is

a

lot

of

money,

as

we

saw

last

week

in

that

data

From

Hernan

Lopez's

Owl

&

Co.

Showing

us,

you

know,

the

amount

of

money

which

is

being

made

that

isn't

advertising

based.

And

of

course

streaming

payments,

the

thing

that

are

sometimes

incorrectly

called

value

for

value,

streaming

payments

are

a

good

example

of

that

as

well.

So,

yeah,

interesting

to

see

whether

or

not

there

will

be

a

bit

more

talk

about

this

at

the

podcast

show

next

week.

I

know

that

Patreon

are

going

because

Patreon

want

to

meet

up

with

me

and

talk

to

me

about

some

of

the

things

that

they're

doing

in

the

podcasting

world.

I

will,

I

will

be

asking

them

why

did

you

tell

one

of

my,

one

of

my

would

be

supporters

that

they

couldn't

support

the

POD

News

newsletter

the

other

day?

No

idea

why.

It

was

just

this

random

error

message

saying,

no,

you

can't

support

them,

so

don't

know

about

that.

But

anyway,

so

that'll

be

interesting

to

find

out

a

little

bit

more

about.

No

doubt.

Now

this

is

an

interesting

one.

Wondercraft

posted

a

about

the

World

bank

launching

a

podcast

in

seven

languages,

obviously

using

their

technology.

And

I

thought,

wow.

And

then

you

look

at

what

they've

actually

done.

They've

been

able

to

produce

versions

in

Hindi

and

French

and

Arabic

and

all

sorts.

Again,

this

is

really

clever

and

I

just

thought

we

may

talk

about

again

how

you

can

take

your

original

content

and

rapidly

now

convert

it

into

multiple

languages

languages.

This

is

what

Mr.

Beast's

been

talking

about

with

YouTube's

audio

dub

and

how

the

meta

platforms

don't

have

it

and

how

people

now

should

be

using

tools

like

Wondercraft

to

go

and

reach

a

wider

audience.

Now

that,

yes,

I

think

that

this

is

two

things.

There

is

all

of

the

translation

which

is

in

here

and

translation

is

really

interesting.

Not

everybody

speaks

English

in