It's

Friday

the

11th

of

April

2025.

The

last

word

in

podcasting

news.

This

is

the

Pod

News

Weekly

Review

with

James

Cridlin

and

Sam

Sethi.

I'm

James

Kridlin,

the

editor

of

Pod

News.

And

I'm

Sam

Sethi,

the

CEO

of

truthinders.

As

many

solo

podcasters

know,

it

can

be

a

really

lonely

sport

at

times.

So

being

with

people

that

go

through

the

same

things,

because

you

know,

it's

one

thing

talking

to

your

partner,

but

if

they're

not

a

podcaster

themselves,

they

still

don't

really

what

it's

like.

That's

Emma

Turner

from

the

Independent

Podcast

Awards,

introducing

the

Independent

Podcast

Forum.

Plus

in

the

chapters

Today

in

the

uk,

three

podcast

production

companies

have

announced

a

merger.

There's

an

open

measurement

protocol

for

podcasting

that's

been

asked

for

and

automatic

translations.

This

podcast

is

sponsored

by

buzzsprout

with

the

tools,

support

and

community

to

ensure

you

keep

podcasting.

Start

podcasting.

Keep

podcasting

with

buzzsprout.com

from

your

daily.

News,

the

Pod

News

Weekly

Review.

Now,

James,

not

that

I

can

sing,

but

I

feel

like

I

have

to

do

the

Spice

Girls

when

three

became

one.

There's

a

big

announcement

today.

What

is

it?

There

is

a

big

announcement,

yes,

it

came

out

yesterday,

of

course.

But

today

as

we

record,

three

podcast

production

companies

have

announced

a

merger,

which

is

all

very

exciting

in

the

uk.

They're

talking

about

a

podcast

supergroup,

which

is

exciting.

Those

three

are

all

owned

by

PodX,

Platform

Media,

Listen

and

Goalhawk.

Platform

Media

owns

a

brand

called

Folding

Pocket

for

podcasting

and

they're

all

going

to

merge.

They're

going

to

be

called

Platform

Media

and

the

newly

formed

company

claims

eight

figure

revenues

and

70%

year

on

year

growth,

which

is

all

very

exciting,

to

be

honest.

This

is

kind

of

what

I

was

expecting

Podex

to

be

doing

once

they'd

purchased

a

number

of

different

companies

in

London.

So

I

was

kind

of,

you

know,

assuming

that

that

would

be

the.

But

yeah,

they've

finally

put

them

together.

Makes

a

bunch

of

sense,

I

think.

Yeah.

I

mean,

is

this

the

start

of

what

Podex

is

going

to

do?

I

mean,

they

own

a

ton

of

companies

now,

not

all

in

the

UK

obviously,

but

are

they

going

to

take

the

other

companies

they

have

in

the

UK

and

bring

them

under

the

umbrella,

do

we

think?

I

think

this

is

all

of

all

the

companies

that

they've

got

in

the

uk.

I

know

that

they've

got

a

ton

of

other

companies

elsewhere.

And

so

what

I

suspect

we

might

see

is

we

might

see

companies

that

in

specific

countries

being

merged

together.

But

of

course

it

makes

little

sense

merging,

for

example,

you

know,

Platform

Media

in

the

UK

together

with

a

random

company

in

Stockholm,

for

example.

I

mean

that

seems

to

make

less

sense,

but

certainly

in

the

uk,

actually

merging

them

together

seems

to

make

quite

a

lot

of

sense.

It

does

sound

as

if

Platform

Listen

and

Goldhawk,

or

rather

folding

Pocket

Listen

and

Goldhawk,

are

going

to

be

continuing

to

use

those

brands

as

kind

of

content

labels,

if

you

like.

But

yeah,

80

people

in

brand

new

offices

in

Farrington.

So

I

think

that's

all.

That's

all

pretty

cool.

Now

one

thing

I

did

note

that

they

said

they

were

going

to

be

co

CEOs.

That's

quite

a

difficult

thing

to

juggle,

I

think

it

is.

Yeah.

So

that's

Matthew

Sherry,

who's

currently

CEO

of

the

original

Platform

Media,

and

Josh

Adley,

who's

managing

director

of

Listen.

They

will

both

be

co

CEOs

of

this

larger

company.

Have

you

ever

seen

co

CEOs

work?

Well,

no.

Well,

criker,

there

you

go.

No

is

the

answer.

And

I

don't

think

when

the

bucks

stop,

someone's

got

to

take

the

final

decision.

And

how

does

that

happen?

But

anyway,

maybe

they're

going

to

break

the

mold

and

be

the

first

to

do

it.

Well,

maybe

they

will.

We've

interviewed

Josh,

we've

interviewed

Matthew

and

we've

interviewed

Stefan

Rossell

who

works

at

Podex,

in

this

show

before.

So

you'll

find

it

in

this

feed

is

well

worth

a

peek.

And

all

of

these

people

are

backed

by

Qualbo,

which

as

you

might

guess,

no,

is

a

Swedish

based

global

investment

company.

And

yes,

they

seem

to

own

all

kinds

of

stuff.

They

own

Haribo,

the

happy

world

of

Qualbo.

Yes.

I'm

not

so

sure.

But

yeah,

and

I

think,

I

think

it

makes

total

sense.

You

know,

you

only

need

one

HR

department,

you

only

need

one

invoicing

department.

Now

I

think

our

conversations

with

Stefan

in

the

past

has

been,

you

know,

essentially

we

will

run

all

of

that

stuff,

but

I

think

actually

merging

them

all

together

seems

to

make

a

fair

amount

of

sense

apart

from

anything

else.

These

companies,

I'm

sure

have

been

bidding

against

each

other

for

certain

things

and

you

know,

and

obviously

all

of

that

will

go

away.

Although

sometimes

that's

a

benefit,

isn't

it?

Well,

a

couple

of

things

I

noticed.

One,

that

Stefan

has

moved

up.

He's

now

listed

as

founder

and

board

director

and

they've

got

a

new

CEO,

Patrick

Svensk.

So

yes,

might

try

and

reach

out

to

Patrick

and

see

what

he

has

to

say.

And

then

the,

the

other

one

is,

I

guess

with

something

like

this

the

whole

is

greater

than

the

sum

of

the

parts.

So

it's

what

Podex's

goal

was.

And

I

assume

this

is

what

they're

going

to

keep

doing

going

forward.

I

wonder

if

they're

going

to

acquire

more

UK

companies

and

maybe

they

haven't

got

any

more,

but

I

think

they

probably

will

then.

Now

they've

got

the

structure.

Well,

you

know,

Persephonica,

that

would

be

an

interesting

company

to.

To

acquire,

wouldn't

it?

What

do

you

think?

No,

no,

I

don't

know.

I

don't

know.

I

think,

I

think

we

should

be.

No,

I

don't

know.

Actually,

I'm

going

to

keep

my

mouth

shut

for

once.

A

cast.

I

mean,

I

mean,

to

be

frank,

they're

Swedish.

Yes.

And

to

be

frank,

Qualbo

could,

could

afford

them.

Just

so.

Yes,

so.

So

that

might

be

interesting.

Yes.

Acast

today,

by

the

way,

saying

that

they've

just

done

a

deal

with

Supercast

for

paid

for

subscriptions,

which

seems

to

make

a

bunch

of

sense.

They've

not

been

able

to

properly

offer

that

in

the

past.

So

being

able

to

offer

that

now

makes.

It

makes

a

bunch

of

sense.

So

that'

that's

very

interesting.

Well,

goes

along

with

the

comment

I

made

last

week,

which

is

I

think

people

are

now

moving

more

to

accepting

that

for

quality

content

you're

gonna

have

to

pay

for

it.

No,

I

agree,

I

agree.

We're

definitely

seeing

that

trend

in,

in

Europe.

Perhaps

not

in

the

US

yet,

but

certainly

in

Europe.

I'm

sure

that

we're

seeing

that

now.

Moving

on,

Dan

Granger,

he

spoke

at

Evolutions,

James,

and

he

asked

the

question,

what

is

a

podcast?

Now

this

feels

like

it's

old

news

because

it

was

like

a

week

ago,

but

what

did

he

say?

Yes,

what

is

a

podcast?

So

actually

he's

done

a

bunch

of

work

around

the

definition

of

a

podcast.

He

was

standing

there

and

having

a

good

old,

I

mean,

almost

rant

on,

on

stage,

saying

things

like

the

stakes

are

nothing

less

than

the

sustainability

of

the

entire

channel.

No,

Hyperbolic.

Yes,

yes,

no,

exactly.

I

mean,

you

know,

so

from

that

point

of

view,

that,

that

was

very

interesting

to

hear

him

talk

about

that,

but

he

was

basically

doing

a

bunch

of

research

in

what

a

podcast

is.

And,

and

I

think

it's

important

if

you

are

in

the

sales

side

to

be

able

to

understand

what

a

podcast

is

because

at

the

end

of

the

day

we've

got

that

$2

billion,

you

know,

thing

that

we

haven't

yet

hit

for

total

revenue

in

the

us.

Still

haven't

quite

hit

that

number.

But

of

course,

if

the

definition

of

a

Podcast

changes,

then

it

gets

more

difficult

to

explain

what

a

podcast

actually

is.

And

so

actually

knowing

what

a

podcast

is

is

kind

of

useful

for

that

sort

of

thing

and

for

knowing

where

your

budgets

are

going.

So

I

can

see

why

he's,

you

know,

probably

more

interested

and

excited

than

anybody

else

about

doing

that.

I

would

say

if

it

sounds

like

a

podcast

or

it

looks

like

a

podcast,

it's

a

podcast.

Move

on.

Yes.

And

I

think

that

the

difficulty

is

that

actually

that's

not

good

enough

for

you

to

be

able

to

turn

around

and

say,

well,

how

much

money

has

podcasting

made

last

year?

Well,

I

mean,

is

YouTube

podcasting?

If

it

is,

then,

then

we've

easily

hit

that

2

billion.

So,

yeah,

let's

do

that

then.

Just

do

it.

Fake

it

until

you

make

it.

No,

I

mean,

I

guess

most

people

say,

unless

it's

got

RSS

distribution,

it's

not

a

podcast.

And

that

seems

to

be

the,

the,

the

final

straw

on

it.

That's

certainly

a

view.

It's

not

a

view

that

I

hold,

but

it's

certainly

a

view

that

some

people

have,

is

that,

yes,

you

must

have

RSS

to

be

a

podcast.

I

mean,

and

I

think

Rob

Walsh

is,

is,

is

right

in

saying.

Sorry,

I

know.

I

think

Rob

Walsh

is

right

in

saying

that

if

you're

not

in

Apple

podcasts,

you're

not

a

podcast.

That's

what

he

said

on

Windy.

Start

at

Apple.

When

does

he

start

at

Apple?

That's

what

he

has

said.

And

I

probably

agree

with

that

too,

to

a

degree.

But

at

the

end

of

the

day,

you

know,

I

say

from

a

usability

point

of

view,

a

podcast

is

whatever

your

audience

thinks

it

is,

and

it

really

is

as

simple

as

that.

Having

said

that,

he

has

a

definition

which

he

has

researched.

He's

talked

to

a

bunch

of

different

people,

and

there

are

two

different

definitions.

There's

a

technical

definition,

which

is

very

tedious

and

boring,

but

it

sounds

like

an

audio

driven

on

demand

program

rooted

in

the

spoken

word.

Typically

episodic

and

conversational

podcasts

cover

wide

ranging

themes

and

formats.

They

are

accessed

via

open

RSS

feeds

or

other

distribution

platforms

and

often

supplemented

by

video.

Often

catchy.

That's

catchy.

Yeah.

Okay,

that's

going

to

take

off.

So

that's

not

going

to

take

off,

but

I

think

that

that

is

a

good

working.

I

think

there

are

bits

of

it

that

I

don't

necessarily

agree

with,

but

I

think

that

that's

a

good

working,

you

know,

explanation

of

what

a

podcast

is.

But

he's

got

a

snappier

one,

which

is

probably

a

little

bit

better,

which

is

if

it

works

with

your

eyes

closed,

it's

a

podcast.

And

I

quite

like

that,

actually.

Yeah,

I

think

that

works.

Yeah,

I

think

that

works.

Now,

the

thing

about

that

Oxford

Road

Report,

I

mean,

I

wasn't

so

excited

about

the

first

part

of

it

and

the

clickbait

of

what

is

a

podcast,

but

I

did

like

the

second

part

of

it,

which

was

he

was

asking

for

an

open

measurement

protocol

for

podcasting.

Now,

why

do

we

need

an

open

measurement

protocol,

James,

what's

the

problem

first,

before

we

decide

on

what

the

solution

is?

Well,

so

his

problem

is

he

wants

good

measurement.

And

as

it

stands

at

the

moment,

moment,

as

we

talked

about

in

the

pod

news

report

card

last

week,

everybody's

measuring

different

things.

YouTube

has

a

different

stat

to

Spotify,

which

has

a

different

stat

to

Apple,

which

has

a

different

stat

to

the

iab,

which

has

a

different

stat

for,

you

know,

various

other

things.

And

that's

not

particularly

helpful

because

at

the

end

of

the

day,

all

that

we

want

to

do

in

the

podcast

business,

in

the

podcast

industrial

complex,

is

to

go

back

to

an

advertiser

and

say,

here's

how

many

people

heard

your

ad.

And,

you

know,

and

that's

basically

it.

And,

you

know,

here's,

here's

roughly,

if

you're

doing

a

branded

podcast,

here's

how

long

your

audience

stayed

with

you.

And

we

can't

do

that

to

a.

A

good

degree

with

the

current

measurement

that

we

have

in

that,

you

know,

everybody's

measuring

a

different

thing.

And

so

what

Dan

is,

is

saying

is

we,

we

need

an

open

measurement

protocol

for

podcasting

to

enable

us

to

do

consistent

measurement

across

platforms.

Privacy

safe

as

well,

although

that's

American

talking.

So

their

definition

of

privacy

is

a

very

different

definition

to,

you

know,

people

in

other

parts

of

the

world.

But

anyway,

privacy

safe,

measurement

across

platforms

while

maintaining

creative

and

distribution

flexibility,

that

is,

it

should

work

everywhere,

it

should

be

consistent,

and

you

should

be

able

to

get

measurement

back

from

it.

And

I

think

that

that's

a

very

bright

thing.

And

he's

basically

saying,

we're

not

prescribing

who

leads,

you

know,

who's

in

charge

of

it.

We

are

saying

it

needs

to

happen.

And

I

think

you

then

frankly

need

somebody

in

charge

of

it.

The

difficulty

is,

I

think

with

all

of

this

is

the

IAB

will

turn

around

and

go.

If

the

IAB

is

doing

their

job

properly,

they

will

turn

around

and

they

will

go,

how

can

we

make

money

out

of

this?

How

could

we

have

the

IAB

podcast

measurement

guidelines

version

three?

And

everybody

signs

up

and

gives

us

lots

of

money.

And

so

I'm

not

sure

Necessarily

that

the

IAB

is

the

right

tool,

is

the

right

company

for

this,

because

I'm

not

sure

that

that

will

necessarily

be

the

right

way

of

doing

things.

So,

you

know,

we

need

probably

a

different

way

around

that.

The

question

I

suppose

is,

well,

what

are

those

numbers

going

to

be

and

how

are

those

numbers

going

to

be

worked

out?

Not

that

we

can

talk

about

it

in

detail,

but

friend

of

the

show

John

Spurlock

is

working

on

something

to

do

with

this.

Now,

we

would

love

to

get

John

on,

so

we'll

reach

out

to

John

when

he's

ready

to

announce

it.

But

I

think

what

is

the

metrics?

You

know,

Dan

Meisner

from

Bumper

talks

about

it,

you

know,

downloads,

not

listen,

what

are

the

type

of

metrics

that

we

would

want

to

share

then

with

the

apps

to

host?

What

are

the

hosts

looking

for

from

first

party

data?

Well,

and

I

think

this

is

where

the

conversation

needs

to

happen

because

to

be

honest,

what

would

be

helpful

is,

you

know,

from

the

advertiser

side,

what

numbers

do

you

want?

And

from

the

creator's

side,

what

numbers

do

you

want?

So,

for

example,

knowing

how

long

people

listen

through

a

particular

show,

very

useful

if

you're

a

branded

podcast,

if

you

know

that,

you

know,

75%

of

audiences

stay

until

the

end

or

near

the

end,

then

that's

useful

to

be

able

to

go

back

to

your

brand

and

say,

look,

we're

making

great

content

because

our

audiences

are

sticking

with

us

as

well,

of

course,

as

working

out.

Okay,

what

are

your

daily

listeners?

What

are

the

total

listeners

for

this

particular

show?

How

many

followers

does

it

have?

You

know,

which

would

be

useful

as

well,

you

know,

followers

as

well

as

total

audience

and

that

sort

of

stuff.

But

I

think

it's,

you

know,

it's

worth

that

conversation

with

all

of

the

industry

here

to

work

out

what

sort

of

data,

you

know,

we

should

be

collecting

on

a,

you

know,

on

an,

on

an

open,

you

know,

in

an

open

fashion.

What

I

mean,

what

sort

of

data

were

you

thinking

about?

Well,

you

and

I

have

talked

about

it

consistently

over

the

last

two

years

actually,

so

it's

nice

to

see

something

coming

to

fruition.

We've

talked

about,

listen,

time,

percent

completed

and

obviously

value

paid

when

you

talk

about

micro

payments.

And

I

think

those

metrics,

when

aggregated

are

then

given

back

to,

from

creators

with

permission

to

their

host.

Then

that's

fine.

I

think,

I

think

I

can't

see

Spotify

or

YouTube

playing

in

this

game

yet.

That

first

party

data

is

their

gold

dust.

I'm

not

sure

they're

going

to

give

that

away.

And

that's

the

other

concern.

Yeah,

Exactly.

I

don't

think,

you

know,

person

by

person

data

is

something

that.

No,

no,

no.

That

they

would

want

to

so

aggravated

data.

Well,

I

mean,

YouTube's

is

open

anyway,

so

from

that

point

of

view

you

can

see

plays.

But

the,

but

the

difficulty

is

of

course

that's

YouTube

plays

not

worked

out

in

the

way

that

we

would

like

them

to

be.

Exactly.

So

what

we're

saying

is

if

we

had

this

show

and

we

had

X

number

of

people

listening

and

we

could

put

an

array

of

who

listened,

how

long

when

they

dropped

off,

etc.

Etc.

But

we

aggregated

that

and

then

gave

that

back

to

buzzsprout

who

had

put

it

in

our

analytics.

Yeah,

I

mean,

why,

if

you

could

get

that

data

from

your

app,

would

you

want

to

give

it

to

the

host?

But

anyway,

some

hosts,

some

apps

don't

have

a

backend.

So.

Okay,

I

understand

that

question

myself,

but.

Okay,

so

we

would

all

give

our

data

to

the

host.

The

host

would

aggregate

it

from

Fountain,

True

Fans,

overcast,

pocket

PC,

etc.

Etc.

Which

will

give

a

holistic

overview.

Or

the

creator

that

would

then

go

to

the

advertiser

who

would

then

say,

yeah,

somebody

heard

my

ad,

somebody

didn't

hear

my

ad.

I'm

just

trying

to

understand

how

this

is

going

to

evolve.

I

think

it's

the

right

way

to

go.

I

just

think

rough

edges.

No,

I

do

agree

and

I

think

there

is

a

difference.

I

don't

think

we'll

ever

get

the.

How

many

people

have

heard

my

ad

without

talking

directly.

I

mean,

you

know,

you

already

get

that

if

you're

selling

ads

in

a

programmatic

way,

you

already

get

that

information

anyway

because

that's

how

many

ads

were

stitched

together,

you

know,

But

I

think

from

a

point

of

view

of

aggregate

information,

I

think

everything

that

you

said

there,

apart

from

the

who

listened

because.

No,

because

nobody's

going

to

give

you

that.

But

apart

from

the

who

listened,

if

you

look

at

just,

you

know,

okay,

you

had

2,000

followers

this

particular

episode

was

listened

to

400

times

on

Monday

and

200

times

on

Tuesday.

That

kind

of

information

to

be

fed

back

to

a.

Whether

it's

a

podcast

host

or

whether

it's

to,

you

know,

whoever

else

for

them

to

then

aggregate

that

information

from

Spotify,

from

YouTube,

from

Pocketcasts,

from

whoever

it

might

be,

that

would

be

quite

useful

information

and

still

allows

those

individual

podcast

apps

like

Spotify

and

YouTube

to

still

keep

things

back

in

terms

of

information

on

who

those

people

were

in

terms

of

demographic

information,

you

know,

all

of

that

kind

of

kind

of

stuff.

If

the

only

thing

that

we're

looking

for

are

numbers

in

terms

of

a

listener

and

in

terms

of,

you

know,

followers

and

those

sorts

of

things

and

potentially

how

long,

how

long

people

get

through

the

show

on

average,

then

I

think

that

that's

really

all

that,

all

that

most

people

would

like.

But

it

depends,

you

know,

of

course

it

depends

on,

on

what

each

individual

stakeholder

wants

and

how

close

we

can

get

to

that.

I

think

you're

right.

That's

a

good

101

step.

Here's

one

question

for

you,

James.

Will

people

want

that

data

when

let's

say

your

download

number

is

wildly

exaggerated

based

on

the

fact

that

Apple

do

auto

downloads

and

your

number

is

thousands

and

then

actually

you

find

out

the

actual

listen

time

is

hundreds

or

tens.

What

are

you

going

to

do

then?

Well,

I

think

this

then

means

that

you

have

to

in

the

same

way

as

we

have

the

IAB

podcast

measurement

guidelines,

perhaps

this

is

another

form

of

expressing

how

many,

you

know,

how,

how

large

your

audience

is.

And

perhaps

there

is

some

form

of

a

process

there

to,

you

know,

to

show

that

you're

calculating

that

accurately.

But,

but

you

know,

being

able

to

quote,

you

know,

let's

call

this

the

open

measurement

guidelines.

And

these,

these

numbers

are

open

measurement

guideline

compliant.

And

I've

got

X

people

tuned

into

this

particular

show.

I

agree

that,

you

know,

one

of

the

biggest

problems

I

think

that

podcasting

has

is

that

historically

all

of

our

consumption

data

is

private

and

nobody

gets

to

see

it.

Now,

you

know,

OP3

makes

it

public

and

makes

it

visible

to

everybod.

YouTube

actually

makes

it

public,

at

least

the

total

plays

and

makes

that

visible

to

everybody

as

well.

I

wish

that

more

people,

and

in

fact

Castbox

and

goodpods

and

there

are

a

few

others

make

their

consumption

public

as

well.

So

let's

make

sure

that

there's

more

public

data,

but

let's

also

make

sure

that,

you

know,

we're

just

counting

the

same

thing

because

at

the

moment

we're

not.

Yeah,

that's

the

critical

part.

It

measuring

apples,

not

oranges

and

apples.

Anyway,

James,

should

we

move

around

the

world

and

have

a

look

what's

going

on

over

in

Asia?

I

heart

Podcast

is

to

launch

a

slate

of

new

podcasts.

What

they

doing,

James?

That

was

very

British

of

you.

Asia.

Asia,

Asia.

Over

in

Asia,

one

went

to

public

school,

one

will

say

Asia.

Yes,

exactly.

My

word,

Indian,

don't

worry

about

it,

you

know,

so,

yes,

so

I

heart

podcasts

getting

very

excited

and

they

are

going

to

do

two

different

things.

They're

working

with

a

company

called

Mammoth

Media

in

Asia

and

they

are,

or

Asia,

if

you

prefer

it

better

that

way

and

they

are

launching

about

a

whole

set

of

new

shows

coming

out

of

that

part

of

the

world.

But

also

obviously

iHeartMedia

want

to

promote

their,

their

own

stuff

in

Asia

as

well.

Tons

of

people,

you

know,

obviously

it's

a

massive

part

of

the

world

in

terms

of

population.

And

so,

yes,

they

are

doing

some

interesting

things

going

on

there.

IHeartMedia

already

has

expanded

into

the,

the

Middle

east

and

North

Africa

as

well.

So

you

can

kind

of

see

that

there's

some

conversations

going

on

just

making

sure

that

iHeart

content

is

available

in

the,

in

the

Asian

region

as

well.

But

yeah,

interesting

to

see

a

large

US

company

very

much,

you

know,

growing

outwards

in

terms

of

the

potential

audience

that

it's

gone

now.

Hopefully

I

get

this

word

right.

Germany.

Crikey,

here

we

go.

Yes,

German

podcast

company

Prodigy

has

launched

a

new

AI

powered

analytics

tool.

Do

we

need

this,

James?

I

mean,

you

know,

you,

you,

so

you

can

go

to

it

and

you

can

go,

hey,

how

many

listeners

did

my

latest

episode

have

last

week?

And

it

will

come

back

and

tell

you

if

you're

too

stupid

to

press

the

buttons,

you

might

be

driving

and.

Have

to

need

immediately

to

know

that

number.

No,

I

mean,

I,

I,

I

can

see

that

there

might

be

some

quite

complicated

things.

I

mean,

the

one

thing

I

would

say

is

that

AI

is

not

at

least

currently

highlighted

as

being

something

that

is

very

good

at

maths.

So

if

you

ask

AI

to

add

up

a

column

of

figures,

then

it

doesn't

always

get

it

right,

which

is

a

slight

concern

when

you

see

AI

powered

analytics

tool.

But

I

do

like

the

idea

of

being

able

to

ask

simple

questions

in

natural

language

and

it'll

come

back

to

you

with

what

it

hopes

is

the

answer.

Look,

I

think

we're

gonna,

we

are

gonna

have

a

conversation

later

on

in

the

show

about

foreign

language

and

translation,

but

I

do

think

that

AI

and

voice

is

actually,

we

are

a

voice

medium

after

all,

with

audio.

So

voice

interfaces,

I

think

are

gonna

be

the

natural

extension

in

the

future.

Anyway.

That's

just

me.

Yeah,

no,

indeed,

I,

I

think

you're

probably,

you're

probably

right

in

some

way.

So,

yes,

I'm,

I

just

find

the

whole

thing

fascinating.

But

yeah,

what

else

is

going

on

in

Italy?

Roma

Tre

University,

which

is

an

Italic,

which

is

an

Italian

public

research

university

in

Rome.

In

Italy.

I'm

trying

to

find

out

why

it's

called

Roma

Tre.

It

genuine

genuinely

is.

Wow.

It

genuinely

is

because

I

was

going

to

make

a

joke

about

it.

It

was

the

third

university

in

Rome.

Do

you

know

why

it's

called

Roma

Tre?

Because

it's

the

third

university.

So

where's,

where's

Roma,

Doug?

Is

there

another

one

called

Dubway

then?

Yeah,

who

knows?

Gosh.

Anyway,

and

Pope

Francis

has

been

there.

Anyway,

Roma

Tre

University,

it's

hosting

the

first

European

conference

dedicated

to

podcasting

as

a

tool

for

research,

education

and

information.

It's

a

very

academic

conference.

It's

taking

place,

well,

as

we

speak.

In

fact,

the

event

is

called

Knowledge

in

your

ears,

which

all

sounds

very

exciting.

So

I

hope

that

they've

had

a

good

day

yesterday

and

a

good

day

today

as

well.

Whizzing

over

to

the

UK,

Bristol

based

podcast

agency

Earworm

has

secured

200,000

in

investment.

Congratulations.

Yeah,

that's

£200,000

or

US$260,000.

And

so

congratulations

to

them.

I

like

their

logo.

That's.

That's

all

I'll

say.

And

Acast

has

held

a

capital

markets

day

for

investors,

setting

updated

financial

targets

for

the

company.

Interestingly,

first

time

that

they

have

streamed

that

particular

thing

live

from

Acast

studios

in

London.

So

very

nice

too.

So

do

you

remember

when

Daniel

Ek

did

his

last

announcement

of

Spotify

and

we

said,

why

don't

they

video

broadcast

it?

Yeah,

why

didn't

they

do

it

live?

Why

didn't

it?

And

then

we

said,

oh,

that's

because

they

haven't

got

a

live

capability.

Well,

clearly

Acast

is

demonstrating

that

they

have.

But

then

again,

weirdly,

the

rest

is

politics.

Recently

did

a

show

from

the

LA

studios

from

Spotify.

So,

Daniel,

you

do

have

a

live

studio

capability

if

you

want

it.

So

maybe

you

should

mirror

what

ACAST

is

doing.

There

you

go,

Daniel,

copy

what

Acast

is

doing.

You've

heard

it

here.

First

audio

boom.

I

bumped

into

Stuart

last

in

the.

In

the

queue

for

a

coffee.

He

was

very

happy

last

week.

Did

he

buy

you

the

coffee?

No,

no.

Well,

he

should

have

done,

given

their

results.

Yes,

very,

very

good

Results

for

quarter

one.

25

EBITDA

profit

up

10

times

year

on

year.

And

the

company

says

it's

on

pace

to

deliver

record

revenue

of

US$80

million

this

year

here.

They're

doing

very

well,

our

audio

boom,

and

it's

good

to

see

them

doing

so

well.

Now,

PodMatch,

the

podcast

network,

has

hit

150

shows.

It's

open

for

another

50

people

to

join.

It's

$6

a

month

as

a

service.

It

offers

courses,

training

and

events.

So,

yeah,

Pod

Match

is

run

by

who

again?

James.

It's

run

by

Alex

San

Filippo.

Always

a

very

well

dressed

man.

Whenever

I

see

him

at

conferences,

he

wasn't

at

Chicago.

At

least

I

don't

remember

that

it

was,

that

it

was

there.

But

yeah,

it's.

He's

got

a

good

rep,

has

the

PodMatch

network,

so

it's

worth

taking

a

peek

at.

And

finally

over

to

Canada,

James,

what's

going

over

there?

So

there's

a

company

called

Websites

for

Podcasts,

which

is

a

new

tool

launched

by

a

Canadian

company

called

Podcast

Branding.

And

at

first

I

looked

at

it

and

I

thought,

oh,

this

looks

interesting.

They

basically

say

if

you

are

paying

somebody

a

perpetual

subscription

model

for

your

website,

then

this

is

a

bad

thing.

And

frankly,

you

should

own

your

website,

own

it

completely.

And

that

makes

a

ton

of

sense.

So

I

thought,

yeah,

no,

that

makes

sense.

You

know,

all

of

that

makes

perfect

sense.

And

then.

And

take

a

look

at

the

pricing.

$3400

it'll

cost

you

for

a

website

of

your

own,

which

is

just

based

on

a

template,

so

you

don't

even

get

it,

you

know,

produced

for

you.

It's

really

just

a

template

that's

been

recolored

and,

you

know,

made

for

you

from

a

choice

of

templates.

I

should

say

$3,400

for

the

first

year.

And

then

you

have

to

pay

them

if

you

want

to

continue

being

hosted

by

that

company.

Yes,

you,

you

can

do

self

hosting

if

you

like,

although

that

means

that

you'll

have

to

pay

somebody

else

to

do

your

hosting

for

you

anyway.

So

I

was

kind

of

looking

at

that

and

thinking,

well,

A,

that's

a

lot

of

money

and

B,

that

price

doesn't

include

the

ongoing

hosting

anyway.

Or

maintenance,

I

bet.

Yeah,

or.

Well,

yeah,

or

maintenance.

So

you've

got

to

continue

paying

for

maintenance

and

hosting,

which

sounds

to

me

like

a

perpetual

subscription

model

anyway.

He

doesn't

seem

to

be

particularly

happy

with

me

for

pointing

that

out,

but

yeah,

it

just

doesn't

look

like

a

good

deal

when

you've

got

somebody

like,

you

know,

like

PodPage,

which

will

give

you

something,

which

looks

pretty

good.

And

yes,

it's

a

perpetual

subscription

model,

but

then

so

is

your

podcast

hosting

anyway,

and

you're

paying,

I

think

I

calculated

it

as

$88

a

year,

which

is

a

bit

cheaper

than

3400,

so.

Yeah,

but

you

know,

it's

a

choice,

I

guess,

isn't

it?

Well,

that.

On

the

back

of

the

fact

that

WordPress

just

launched

their

free

AI

powered

website

builder,

that

would

not

be

a

problem

then,

would

it?

Gosh,

yes.

Well,

that's.

Well,

that's

definitely

a

thing.

Yeah.

Anyway,

good

luck

to

them,

whatever

they

managed

to

achieve.

Now

moving

on.

Not

a

lot.

Not

a

lot.

Now

moving

on.

People

in

jobs,

who's

moving

and

Grooving.

Who's

moving

and

grooving,

James?

Well,

yes,

plenty

of

people

moving,

but

not

necessarily

grooving

from

Daily

Wire.

There's

been

a

round

of

layoffs

there

to

Quotes.

Better

align

resources

with

business

priorities

and

growth

areas.

There's

seemingly

quite

a

lot

of

drama

going

on

in

that

company.

Now,

of

course,

this

is

being

read

through

the

lens

of

there

being

quite

a

lot

of

people

who

wish

that

company

bad

because

of

their

political

views.

And

so

there's

lots

of

very

hyperbolic

blog

posts

out

there.

But

it

turns

out

that

one

of

the

co

founders

has

left

somebody

who

rejoices

in

the

name

Jeremy

Bore.

I'm

sure

that's

not

how

you

pronounce

it,

but

anyway.

And

the

VP

of

Public

Relations,

Alyssa

Cordova,

they've

both

left

the

company.

But

also

it

sounds

as

if

a

quarter

of

the

company's

employees

have

left.

Although

depending

on

who

you

read,

it

might

just

be

the

kids

division

has

closed

and

in

which

case,

well,

that's

fine,

that's

just

a

change

of

priority

there.

But

in

any

case,

trouble

at

mill,

potentially

at

Daily

Wire.

Also

trouble

at

mill

with

Automattic.

Now

we

care

about

Automattic

because

it

owns

Pocketcasts.

It

does,

of

course,

also

own

WordPress,

and

159

employees

left

that

company

in

October

after

the

founder

did

something

really

weird.

They're

now

laying

off

another

280

workers

in

a

restructure,

which

I

think

makes

it

something

like

30%

of,

you

know,

maybe

25%

of

their

of

their

work

has

gone

in

the

last

six,

six

months.

So

quite

a

lot

of

movement

going

on

there

so

far

as

I

can

work

out.

Pocketcast

seems

fine.

Ellie

was

at

in

Chicago,

although

I

didn't

see

her

there.

So.

Yeah,

so.

But

interesting

stuff

going

on

at

Automatic.

Yeah,

they

also

own

Tumblr.

Do

you

remember?

They

bought

that

as

well?

Yes,

they

did.

And

they

were

talking

about

Tumblr

moving

on

to

the

Fedivers,

but

then

apparently

they've

been

talking

about

Tumblr

moving

on

to

the

feliverse

every

sort

of

three

months

for

the.

For

the

last

five

years.

So

I'm

not

quite

sure

whether

or

not

that's

ever

going

to

happen,

but

yeah,

who

knows?

Anyone

else

got

a

new

job?

James?

There

are

a

few

people

who've

got

a

new

job.

Casey

Spivey

has

been

named

VP

of

podcast

operations

for

Pioneer.

And

Carrie

Brody,

interestingly,

she.

So

she

moved

from

Pushkin

Industries

where

she

was

VP

of

Business

Development.

She's

now

VP

of

Business

Development

at

Higher

Ground,

working

with

the

Obamas,

which

is,

you

know,

Quite

a

move.

So

congratulations

to

Carrie

Brody

for

doing

that.

I

listened

to

the

first.

Michelle

Obama,

New

one

won't

be

listening

to

the

second,

that's

for

sure.

Well,

I

mean,

I

have

to

say,

my

goodness,

the

feedback

about

that

new,

that

new

show.

Because

of

course,

again,

just

like

in

the,

with

the

Daily

Wire,

people

really

want

to

do

whatever

Meghan

Markle

does

down.

And

so

of

course

everybody's

piled

in

and

said

how

dreadful

this

is.

Ah,

that's

Meghan

Markle,

not

Michelle

Obama.

But

they

are

both.

Oh,

sorry,

yes,

sorry,

yeah.

Yes,

yes,

you're

absolutely,

absolutely

fair.

Yes,

yes.

I

mean,

both,

both

people

are

being,

being,

you

know,

slagged

off

left,

right

and

center

again

because

of

some

of

their

views.

So

I

don't

actually,

I

don't

believe

that

I,

I,

look,

yes,

there

will

be

those

people

on

the

right

who

just

don't

care

whatever

is

said

or

those

people

in

the

royalist

side

who

won't

give

Meghan

Markle

a

break

and

that's

fine.

But

I

actually

think

the

content

of

both,

because

I,

I

wanted

them

to

be

successful,

it's

just

dull.

It

really

is

dull.

And

I'm

not,

I'm

not

saying

that

I'm

a

massive

fan

of

the

Obamas,

but

I,

I

couldn't

listen

to

that

longer

than

I

had

to.

Well,

well,

there

we

are.

And

on

that

bombshell,

let's

move

on

what

I

think.

Let's

move,

let's

move

on

to

awards

and

events

and

the

Independent

Podcast

Awards.

I

was

there

last

year.

They

are

open

for

entry

again

this

year.

Excitingly,

they've

also

announced

a

new

event,

the

Independent

Independent

Podcast

Forum,

which

is

a

one

day

event

for

indie

creators.

The

awards

attracted

more

than

400

entries

last

year.

But

I'm

curious

as

to

why

they've

also

jumped

in

with

the

Independent

Podcast

Forum.

So

you

decided

you'd

find

out

as

well.

So

you

had

a

quick

chat

with

Emma

Turner.

You

asked

her

what

the

Independent

Podcast

Awards

were.

They

are,

as

the

name

says,

awards

for

independent

podcasters.

They're

in

their

third

year

now

and

we

launched

them

back

in

2023.

It

was

kind

of

off

the

back

of

a

conversation

that

Em

from

Verbal

Diorama

had

with

Simon

Brie

from

Film

Stories

about

how

there's

quite

a

lot

of

podcast

awards

out

there,

but

often

the

smaller

shows

get

overlooked.

And

so

one

thing

led

to

another

and

then

we

launched

the

awards

to

try

and

do

something

about

that.

So

here

we

are

three

years

later.

Yeah,

James

and

I

went

to

the

last

awards.

They

were

really

well

done.

Congratulations

to

everyone

involved.

Thank

you.

There's

some

amazing

winners

out

of

that.

Now

you've

also

just

announced

the

Independent

Podcast

Forum.

What's

that?

It's

going

to

be

a

small

one

day

event

for

indie

creators

to

come

together

and

learn

from

experts

from

the

industry,

but

also

to

learn

from

each

other

as

well.

This

sort

of

came

off

the

back

of

feedback

from

attendees

from

the

awards

and

how

much

they

loved

just

being

in

a

room

with

people

like

them.

As

many

solo

podcasters

know,

it

can

be

a

really

lonely

sport

at

times.

So

being

with

people

that

go

through

the

same

things,

because

you

know,

it's

one

thing

talking

to

your

partner,

but

if

they're

not

a

podcaster

themselves,

they

still

don't

really

understand

what

it's

like.

Know

that

feeling

well,

know

that

feeling

well.

So

this

is

a

chance

for

people

to

come

together,

talk

about

what

they

do,

find

out

how

they

could

potentially

do

things

better,

and

yeah,

hear

from

some

excellent

speakers

too.

So

what

is

the

date

for

this

independent

forum?

It's

taking

place

on

Monday

16

June

at

21

Soho

in

central

London

and

it's

running

from

about

9:30

till

5

and

there'll

be

some

drinks

afterwards

as

well,

so

even

more

time

to

chat.

And

if

I

wanted

to

register

or

I

wanted

to

come

along,

what

would

I

do?

You

would

go

to

our

website,

independentpodcastawards.com

and

there's

information

about

both

the

forum

and

entering

the

awards.

So

everything's

all

in

one

place,

making

it

nice

and

easy.

And

as

you

said,

entering

the

awards,

what's

the

entry

date

and

what's

the

actual

date

of

the

awards

then?

The

deadline

for

entries

is

2

June,

which

is

a

Monday,

So

it

gives

you

that

last

weekend

to

get

everything

together.

And

the

awards

themselves

are

going

to

take

place

on

the

15th

of

October

back

at

King's

Place

in

London.

Nice

judges.

Who's

judging

it

this

year?

How

do

judges

get

involved?

What

do

they

need

to

do?

Well,

it's

an

open

call

for

judges.

If

people

would

like

to

get

involved,

then

please

do

get

in

touch

with

me.

My

email

address

is

all

over

the

website

site

and

yeah,

we've

had

a

mix

of

people

that

have

been

podcasting

for

years,

people

that

just

started

doing

it,

a

nice

array

of

judges,

but

we

want

lots

of

people

from

different

backgrounds,

different

voices,

looking

for

different

things

as

well.

So

please

do

get

in

touch

and

get

involved.

Now,

is

it

as

expensive

as

entering

the

British

Podcast

Awards?

Do

I

have

to

pay

a

gazillion

quid,

find

sponsors

and

give

you

a

gold

bar

of

bullion?

What

do

I

need

to

do

no.

We

try

to

keep

our

costs

as

minimal

as

possible.

Obviously,

life

is

expensive

right

now

and

lots

of

these

people

are

doing

it

themselves.

They

don't

have

a

company

to

pay

for

them.

So

the

cost

to

enter

is

£35

for

the

first

entry,

and

then

if

you

want

to

enter

a

couple

of

other

categories,

they're

£5

each

after

that.

And

we've

got

a

few

free

to

enter

categories

as

well,

which

are

Best

podcast

Artwork,

Best

jingle,

and

a

new

one

for

this

year,

best

use

of

video.

Because.

Because

lots

of

people

are

starting

to

dip

their

toe

in

the

water

in

terms

of

video

podcasting.

So

we

just

want

to

see

what

people

are

up

to

and

reward

those

that

are

doing

it.

Well,

I

was

going

to

ask

you

about

video

in

new

categories,

but

you

beat

me

to

it.

Do

you

or

will

you.

Now,

here's

a

controversial

one.

Will

you

use

a

category

for

AI?

Some

people

say

having

an

AI

voice

is

not

very

creative,

or

maybe

having

AI

artwork

is

not

very

creative.

And

other

people

sit

on

the

other

side

of

a

fence,

say,

that's

very

creative.

So

where

do

you

sit?

That's

a

really

tricky

question.

I

think

that

if

you

can

demonstrate

why

you're

using

it

and

how

you're

using

it

and

doing

it,

but

still

being

creative,

then

I

think

it's

okay.

But

it's

so

open

to

open

interpretation,

isn't

it?

Lots

of

people

have

very

Marmite

views

on

it,

so

I

think

it's

demonstrating

to