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we

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tea

time

in

the

house.

So

a

little

bit

on

Tung

Gu

Born

and

raised

in

China,

Tungu

came

to

Canada

in

the

late

80s

as

an

international

student.

She

has

obtained

a

Master

of

Science

degree

from

University

of

Saskatchewan

in

1992.

Since

2012,

she

has

written

under

both

her

real

name

and

the

pen

name

Tungu,

publishing

poems,

prose

and

short

stories

in

both

English

and

Chinese

across

North

America,

England

and

Taiwan.

Her

work

can

be

found

in

publications

such

as

Prims

International,

Canadian

Stories,

Rice

Paper,

Academy

of

the

Heart

and

Mind

Flow

Magazine,

Vineyard

Poetry

Quarterly,

Plug

Magazine,

Alaka

Magazine,

Magnets

and

Ladders.

With

four

liter

literacy

prizes

already

received,

she

is

also

a

finalist

for

four

others.

Her

Dubai

Dubai

book

the

House

Filler

was

published

in

Canada

in

2023

and

is

among

the

five

finalists

worldwide

for

the

2023

Island

Historical

Fiction

and

Memoir

category

and

is

the

winner

of

the

2024

Independence

Press

Awards

for

the

New

Fiction.

Let

me

get

her

in

here

and

let's

spill

some

tea

together

and

see

where

we

go

tonight.

Welcome.

Thank

you.

Did

I

get

it

right?

I

tried

so

hard.

Yeah,

99%.

So

welcome

to

the

show.

It's

an

honor

to

have

you

here.

It's

honor

for

me

to

be

here.

So

let

me

take

you

down

the

road

of

who

you

were

as

a

little

girl

and

who

you

are

now.

I

was

very

talkative,

very,

I

would

say

pretty,

smart

little

girl.

And

I

wanted

to

be

a

dancer

when

I

was

a

little

girl.

So

however,

I

was

born

in

the

early

1960s

and

when

I

was

four

years

old

China

had

something

called

the

Cultural

Revolution.

So

we

lived

in

a

small

town,

university

town,

so

there

was

no

professional

training

opportunity

for

dancers.

There's

no

dance

studios,

there's

no

just

no

opportunities.

But

way

back

when,

when

during

the

Cultural

Revolution,

there's

lots

of

propaganda

teams.

They

do

loyalty

dance,

you

know,

like

a

Young

people,

Young

Red

Guards,

they

do

loyalty

dance.

Everybody's

supposed

to

do

loyalty,

loyalty

dance.

That's

my

first

dance

license.

So.

So

I'm

so

glad

you

brought

up.

The

dancing

because

I

found

out

about

you.

Yeah.

So

I

always

wanted

to

be

a

dancer,

but

when

I

went

to

school,

to

grade

school,

I

was

too

tall.

I

was

one

head

taller

than

all

the

other

kids.

So

every

time

they

have

a

dance

rehearsal

or

performance

in

the

school,

I

was

excluded

because

I

was

too

tall.

And

so

that's

pretty

much

the

end

of

my

dancer's

dream.

Today.

I'm

a

writer.

I'm

also

a

financial

planner.

That's

for

my,

you

know,

for

my

livelihood.

I

have

to

fit

myself

right.

So

that's

how

I

make

a

living.

But

in

the

heart,

I'm

an

artist.

And

I

wanted

to

be

a

writer

when

I

was

in

junior

high.

It

is

a

long

journey.

But

finally

I'm

here,

see,

and

you're.

Bringing

up

all

the

goodies

that

I

found

about

you

because

I

was

just

like,

oh.

Because

I

just

seen

your

interview

that

you

did

with

shooting

at

Raw

with

a

good

friend

of

mine

from

Japan.

Yeah.

Small

world,

isn't

it?

It

is

a

small

world.

I'm.

I'm

surprised.

Wow.

Oh,

my

guess

is

with

Ram

and

Ram

forgot

to

tell

me.

I

will

reach

out

to

Ram

and

let

him

know

that

I've

seen

it.

But

no,

I

found.

I

found

that

you

were

a

dad,

that

you

wanted

to

be

a

dancer

and

when

he

was

doing

the

interview

with

you,

you

were

a

Broadway.

Broadway

dancer.

Not

a

Broadway

dancer,

but

a

ballroom

dancer.

Ballroom.

Yes.

Yeah.

So

that's.

So

what

was

it

about

the

ballroom

dancing

that

you

liked?

It's

just

a

dream

like

I

had

when

I

was

a

child.

I

never

had

a

chance.

So

when

I

was

in

my

30s,

I

found

out

actually

ballroom

dance

studios

in

Calgary.

I

love

the

music

and

I

love

the

movement.

I

just

love

to

dance.

But

I

could

never

be

a

professional

dancer.

I

was

too

old.

But

just

for

my

own

entertainment

and

satisfaction.

And

also

I

found

when

people

dance,

they

are

generally

happy.

So

I

have

this

weird

ideas.

So

if

we

have

some

kind

of

organization,

organize

the

World

Dance

Conference

or

something.

Dance.

Not,

not

a

competition,

but

every

country

will

dance

with

every

other

country.

Like

then

I

think

the

world

peace

will

be

achieved

because

when

people

are

dance,

they're

happy.

You

don't

say

people,

you

know,

angry

when

they

dance.

They're

generally

happy.

Yeah.

So

we

have,

we

have

a

guest

in

the

house.

We

have

Shadow

God

joining

us.

And

he

says,

hello,

Ms.

Liz

and

Tongu.

I

Am

happy

to

be

here

with

you

this

evening.

And

I'm

here

to

listen

and

learn.

So

thank

you.

Really

get

into

Hui.

Yeah.

So

Tungu,

I

want

to

get

into

the

dancing

more

because

that

was

part

of

growing

up

as

well.

You

had

to

learn

that

loyalty

dance,

correct?

Yeah.

Loyalty

dance,

yes.

Yeah.

Because

in

China,

like

during

the

Cultural

Revolution,

we

have

to

express

our

loyalty

to

Chairman

Mao

pretty

much.

So

that's

a

loyalty

dance.

There's

not

much

technical,

there's

not

real.

Most

of

those

dances

are

that

were

done

by

amateurs.

They're

not

professionals.

But

to

me,

still

that

was

eye

opening

because

every.

Every

once

in

a

while,

like

a

pretty

actually

pretty

often

the

dance

troops

will

travel

to

our

college

and

present

the

dance.

When

I

was

four

years

old,

I

think

four

or

five

one

time

when

there's

a

dance

troupe

came,

but

because

we

were

living

in

a

university,

on

a

university

campus.

So

some

college

students,

they

knew

me

because

I

was

really

good

at

reset

Chairman

Mao's

quotation.

So

I

got,

I

became

famous

research.

They

knew

me.

So

they

brought

me

with

like

I

was

playing

outside.

They

just

brought

me

to

the

theater

waiting

for

the

show

to

start.

But

the

show

was

started

really,

really

late.

Like

over

time

and

people

get

restless,

you

know.

Then

I

just

decided

to

step

onto

the

stage

and

start

my

own

dance.

Solo

dance

and

singing

and

dance.

And

by

then

all

the

entrance

were

blocked

by

people.

Actually

people

were

like

layers

of.

Layers

of

people.

They

all

the

seats

were

taken.

Then

people

like

stood

at

the

back

and

blocked

all

the

doorway.

So

my

family

thought

I.

Because

I

was

out

the

whole

day,

I

didn't

come

home

for

supper.

So

they

basically,

the

child

was

missing,

so

they

didn't

know

where

to

find

me.

And

somebody

said

at

the

time,

in

China

we

also

have

this

underground

tunnel

to

be

prepared

to

be

ready

for

the

nuclear

war.

Because

at

the

time

Russia

or

Soviet

Union,

it

seems

like

the

border

tension

was

very

high.

And

it

was

a

possibility

they

will

launch

a

nuclear

war

at

us.

So

every

work

we

call

work

units,

right?

Work

unit

is

university,

factory,

manufacturer,

villages,

military

units

is

called

work

units.

Every

work

unit

were

required,

was

required

to

dug

underground

tunnel.

So

that

day

then

my

parents

learned

that

that

was

a

tunnel

open

house

day.

Like

the

tunnel

was

open

for

people

to

visit.

Right

then

they

were

afraid

I

was

in

the

tunnel.

Then

by

the

night,

you

know,

the,

the

gate

was

locked.

Then

I

was

stuck

inside.

They

were

about

to

call

the

security

to

open

the

tunnel.

Then

somebody

said,

well,

there's

a

show

actually

in

this

university

theater.

Maybe

your

kid

is

there,

is

there

right

and

then

go

check

it

out.

So

my

dad

went

to

the

theater,

couldn't

get

into

inside.

So

eventually

he

went

to

the

side

door.

That

side

door

was

directly

to

the

backstage

and

through

the

gap

he

saw

me

was

at

the

time

I

was

back,

I

was

backstage.

So

he

waved

this

young

person

to

the

door

and

said

that's

my

little

kid.

She

has

ad

for

the

whole

day.

So

that's

my

like

a

debut

kind

of

debut

show.

Why

was

I

think

it

was

a

little

bit

over

four,

four,

four

years

old.

So

we

have

a

couple

questions

here

for

you

about

Dance

from

Shadow.

So

I'm

just

going

to

bring

them

up

for

the

viewers

and

so

they

can

see

the

question

as

well.

Mr.

Have

you

ever

done

the

sword

dance

or

the

rose

dance?

No.

And

then.

Or

the

dragon

dance

or

the

lion

dance?

No,

no.

We

were

doing

a

totally

different

kind

of

dance.

For

example,

there's

one

very

famous

solo

dance

from

the

ballet.

The

title

was

the

White

Haired

Woman.

So

it's

a

story

about,

you

know,

how

this

young

woman

became

a

ghost

or

forced

to

became

a

ghost,

become

a

ghost

in

old

society.

Old

society

means

before

1949,

before

the

Communists

took

over

the

chat

took

over

power

and

then

in

a

new

society

she,

you

know,

returned.

Well

she

was

a

human

but

because

in

the

old

society

she

suffered

so

much,

all

her

hair

turned

white

and

she

was

in

the

mountains

and

people

thought

she

was

a

ghost.

So

this

cuddle

white

hired

woman,

there's

a

ballet

and

it

was

also

made

into

a

movie

and

the

opening

dance

was

a

solo

dance

by

this

young

girl

when

she

was

still

in

the

village

with

her

dad.

And

that

was

such

a

beautiful

dance

and

everyone

want

to

learn

it.

And

I

knew

how

to

do

it

just

by

watching,

watching

it

for

so

many

times.

Yeah,

we

didn't,

we

didn't

have

like

a

line

dance

or

sword

dance.

That's

more

like

probably

in

the

fiction.

So

in

China

growing

up

Changu

was

dance

used

to

tell

stories.

Yeah.

Well

when

I

grew

up

again

because

of

the

Cultural

Revolution,

many

shows,

dances,

movies,

books

were

banned.

So

we

were,

we

only

had

eight

operas

were

allowed

and,

and

also,

and

also

two

ballets.

One

is

this

white

haired

woman.

Another

one

is

also

about

the

women,

you

know,

later

liberated

themselves

and

they

joined

the

revolution.

So

sorry,

what

was

your

question

before?

This

is

dance

used

to

tell

stories

in

China.

Oh

yeah,

yeah.

Those

dancers

always

tell

story

loyalty

dance.

No,

you

just,

it's

just

your

loyal

express

your

loyalty.

I

think

it's

right

just

stretch

your.

Arms

and

go

like

I

know,

I

know.

It's

more

like

Exercise.

Well,

that's

more

like

exercises.

Well,

ballroom

dancing

is

actually

used

as

an

exercise

to

lose

weight

as

well

because

of

the

movement.

Oh

yeah,

yeah.

And

you

took

some

ballroom

dancing.

So

what

was

your

favorite

in

ballroom

dancing?

My

first

love

was

tango,

but

then

I

also

after

that

I

fell

in

love

with

waltz

and

samba.

So

those

are

those

four.

These

three

are

my

favorite

dances.

The

tank

was

pretty

good.

I've

done

that.

I

like

the

salsa

and

I

like

the

foxtrot.

Oh

yeah,

yeah.

Is

they're

all

beautiful,

right?

All

the

bomb

dances.

I

think

all

the

dance

are

beautiful.

Even

the

fog

dances,

folk

dances,

any,

you

know,

place

you

go,

any

nationality,

any

minority

group.

Like

I.

I

think

the.

Their

dance

is

all

beautiful.

I

couldn't

even

find

some

dancers

not

right.

Which

it

just

so

impressed

me.

Every

dance,

every

kind

of

dancer

are

beautiful,

basically.

So

let's

get

into

your

book,

the

book

that

Mickey

sent

me,

and

it's

called

the,

the

House

filler.

So

what's

the

House

Filler

about?

The

House

Filler

is

actually

based

on

my

grandmother's

story.

So

in

China

in

old

time,

a

woman

who

marries

a

widower

is

called

a

house

filler.

So

that's

the

title

because

the

protagonist,

the

Golden

Phoenix,

she

missed

her

ideal

marriage

age,

which

was

between

16

and

18

typically.

So

she

didn't

marry

until

she

was

26.

There's

two

reasons.

One

was

because

her

feet

were

too

large.

Like

at

that

time,

Chinese

women,

they

like

their

parents

bound

their

daughter's

feet

because

of

value

of

a

woman

is

measured

by

the

size

of

her

feet.

The

tinier

the

feet,

the

more

she

would

be

desirable.

So

all

the

parents

bend

their

daughter's

feet

so

they

can

marry

off

well.

But

Golden

Phoenix

was

a

motherless

child

and

her

father

delayed

her

food

binding

process

until

she

was

six,

so

it

was

a

little

bit

too

late.

So

her

feet

was

not

ideal

size,

which

is

three

twin

golden

water

lily

size,

three

Chinese

twins,

about

4

inches

long.

And

her

feet

was

bigger

than

that.

The

second

reason

that

she

was

trained

as

a

seamstress

and

became

a

breadwinner

of

the

family.

So

her

father

delayed

her,

arranged

the

marriage

until

she

was

26

and

she

had

no

choice

but

to

marry

a

waiter.

And

her

husband

was

20

years

older

than

her.

So

that's

where

the

title

of

the

book

came

from.

So

Jungu,

the

people

that

don't

know

my

listeners,

what

is

foot

bonding?

Oh,

so

in

China,

for

about

a

thousand,

more

than

a

thousand

years,

that

little

girl

like

their,

their

parents

would

bend

their

feet

with

using

like

basically

bend

the

four

toes

underneath

their

Feet

only

leave

the

big

toe

and

then

wrap

it

up

really

tight

so

stop

the

foot

growing.

And

also

like

those

four,

four

toes,

if

they

were

lucky,

they're

just

dislocated,

but

sometimes

they're

just

broken.

And,

and

so

because

tiny

feet

is.

Is

supposed

to

be

sexy.

And

this

came

from

in

Song

dynasty,

there's

a

emperor

who

just

loved

the

tiny

feet

woman.

And

that's

how

the

tradition

started.

So

even

ordinary

people

would

buy

their

daughter's

feet

because

like

at

that

time,

if

your

fate

is

too

large,

nobody

would

want

to

marry

you

except

for,

let's

say

peasants

or

kuli,

the

hard

labor.

But

everyone

want

their

daughter

to

marry

off

like

mar.

Right.

So

they.

It's

become

a.

A

tradition

lasted

for,

you

know,

more

than

a

thousand

years.

And

the

Chinese

women

suffered

tremendously

from

that.

You

know,

once

they're

fer

bound,

they

couldn't

run,

they

couldn't

jump,

they

couldn't

climb.

So

in

the

book

when

Japanese

invaded

China,

like

Golden

Phoenix

and

her

children

were

like

escaping,

but

with

bump

feet,

it

was

extremely

hard.

And

that's

just

the

way

it

was.

So

there's

a

saying,

something

said

with

every

pair

of

bump

feet

there's

a

bucket

of

tears.

So

most

Chinese

women

suffered

that

before,

like

pretty

much

like

before.

I

think

as

a

tradition

would

start

to.

That

people

start

to

call

for

abolish.

Abolish

of

the

tradition

in

the

early

20s,

the

20th

century.

Yeah,

probably

like

about

1910,

1920.

But

like

the

big

city

like

Shanghai,

Right.

With

the

family,

the

wealth,

the

wealthy

and

the

progressive.

Their

daughter

stopped

binding

their

daughter

feet.

But

for

average

people,

they

still

do

that.

I

think

the

last

case

of

the

foot

banding

was

in

the

1950s.

Oh,

wow.

Yeah.

50s

in

a

village,

a

remote

village

in

China,

because

they

were

too

isolated,

they

did

not

know

what

was

going

on

outside.

So

they're

still.

Last

case

was

in

the

50s.

Yeah.

Wow.

And

it

was

only

done

to

the

daughters.

Yeah.

Only

women.

Yeah.

Oh,

wow.

Did

you

have

that

happen

to

you?

No,

I

was

born

in

the

60s.

No.

Even

my

mom,

she

didn't

have

the

bound

feet.

Her

mother

like

my.

Both.

My

grandmother

from

both

side,

they

had

their

feet

bound.

Yeah.

So

when

did

you

come

to

Canada?

1988.

1988.

So

what?

That

must

have

been

a

big

transition

for

you

to

come

to

a

different

country

and

see

the

different

traditions

in

that

as

well,

right?

Yeah.

Do

you

want

to

share

a

little

bit

about

that?

Yeah.

I

came

here

as

an

international

student,

you

know,

in

China

when,

after

1949,

China

pretty

much

closed

its

door

to

the

World

until

Chairman

Mao

passed

away.

So

Chairman

Mao

passed

away

in

1976.

By

the

1980s,

Deng

Xiaoping.

Deng

Xiaoping

was

a

guy

who

took

over,

pretty

much

run

the

country.

And

he

decided

because

the

economy

was

at

the

brink

of

collapse

class

and

there's

so

many

problems

with

this,

with

the

economy,

with

the

society,

with

the,

you

know,

the

system,

educational

system

and

political

system.

So

then

the

leaders

at

the

time

decided

to

carry

out

economic

reform

which

include

open

the

door

to

the

Western,

Western

world

so

we

can

have,

you

know,

export,

we

can

sell

our

goods

to

the

world.

And

also

at

the

same

time,

for

the

first

time,

we

had

opportunity

to

come

out

as

an

international

student

to

study.

But

that

was

way

back

when

that

was

pretty

much

the

only

way

for

us.

For

most

of

Chinese

in

southern

China,

traditionally

they

came

out

way

back

when.

This

railway

workers

is

goat

rash

time.

That

is

from

southern

China

along

the

coast.

But

for

most

part

of

China,

people

didn't

have

that

opportunity.

But

in

the

80s,

all

of

a

sudden

we

had

opportunity.

But

I

still

need

to

study

English

and

pass

the

exam

English

exam

for

foreign

students

and

need

a

good

grades

from

my

college

and

really

good

reference

letter.

But

I

was

able

to

get,

you

know,

I

was

accepted

by

four

graduate

schools

in

North

America,

two

in

Canada,

two

in

the

United

States

and

the

two

out

of

four

provided

a

scholarship.

So

I

choose

Canada,

University

of

Saskatchewan

because

ufs

their

semester

started

like

one

semester's

earlier

than

the

US

one.

So

at

the

time,

because

the

policies,

Chinese

policy

could

change

at

any

time.

So

you'll

come

out

at

your

earliest

opportunity.

But

at

the

time,

actually

after

I

graduate

from

college,

I

went

to

the

same

university

my

dad

was

teaching.

I

went

back

there

to

work

as

a

teacher.

And

then

the

son

of

the

president

was

pursuing

me

and

I

didn't,

I

didn't

like

him.

I

didn't.

I

just

think

he

was

stupid.

Anyway,

so

his

family

found

a

matchmaker

and

proposed,

you

know,

to

our

family.

That's

how

it's

supposed

to

be

done.

You

know,

the

parents

taught,

right?

But

my

parents

knew

I

didn't,

I

didn't

want

to

do

anything

with

this

guy.

So

they

turned

the

proposal

down.

Ever

since

then

his

father

started

to

make

my

life

miserable.

So

tried

everything

to

stop

me

from

coming

to

abroad.

So

even

though

everything

I

had

was

legal,

I

was

like,

escaped

from

China.

Like

when

I

left

my

house,

my

parents

house,

they

were

too

afraid

to

even

step

outside

of

the

door

to

say

goodbye

to

me

because

they

were

afraid

the

neighbors

would

say.

And

then,

you

know,

everybody

knew

I

was

leaving.

So

he

Was

he

was

trying

to

get

like

a

rearranged

marriage

from

you?

Yeah,

yeah.

The

president

wanted

me

to

marry

his

son

and

I

pretty

much

like

my

family

turned.

Turned

him

down.

Like

I

turned

him

down.

So

then

it

was

like

a.

He

was

taking

revenge

on.

Revenge

on

me.

And

at

the

time,

without

the

approval,

approval

from

the

university,

from

like

my

work

unit,

I

couldn't

even

get

a

passport.

So

it

was

a.

It's

a

pretty

long

story.

And

this.

The

president

even

tried

to

stop

me

after

I

got,

you

know,

I

sent

every.

All

the

documents

to

the

local

police

station.

That's

how

you

get

the

passport

for.

And

he

tried

to

stop

me.

This

is

a

long

story,

but

this

part

is

in

my

third

book

because

my

book

there's

a

trilogy,

right.

So

first

book

is

about

my

grandmother.

Second

book

is

about

my

parents.

And

third

book

is

about

myself

before

I

came

to

Canada.

So

this

part

is

in

the

third

book

and

it

will

be

a

fantastic

reading.

And

the

people

usually

don't

realize

what

we

were,

you

know,

going

through.

Yeah.

It

doesn't

mean

if

you

do

everything

legally

you

can,

you

can

get

it

done.

There's

still.

Yeah.

I.

I

was

almost

like

escaped

from

China.

Like

I.

In

a

train

station

in

Xi'an

because

my.

My

parents

didn't,

you

know,

say

goodbye

to

me.

But

after

Richard

arrived

the

Xi'an,

which

is

a

big

city

next

to

this

college

town,

then

my

dad

went

to

Xi'an

to

see

me

for.

For

the

last

time,

like

before

I

leave.

That

was

the

last

time

I

saw

him.

That

was

the

last.

Have

you

been

back

to

China

since

coming

to

Canada?

Yeah,

I

have.

But

after

I

left,

then

I

came

here

in

1988.

My

father

passed

away

in

1991.

So

when

he

was.

When

he

passed,

when

he

was

dying,

I

couldn't

go

back

to

visit

for

two

reasons.

Because

I

had.

I

was

holding

like

I

had

a

student

visa,

international

student

visa.

So

I

was

a

visa

student.

But

at

the

same

times,

all

the

Chinese

students

applied

for

land

immigrant

after

1918

and

massacre

happened.

So

then

we

were

like.

I

was

in

Saskatoon,

right.

We

were

told,

because

we

were

this.

It

was

a

special

case.

We

were

not

limited

by

the

immigration

quota

and

everybody

will

be

landed

within

a

year.

So

we

all,

we

were

all.

We

all

applied

in

1989,

summer

of

1989.

But

Saskatoon

was

only

city

took

Saskatoon

two

and

a

half

years

to

land

us.

Like

every

single

city

in

Canada

landed

those

foreign

students,

Chinese

students.

In

a

year.

It

took

us

to

two

and

a

half

years.

During

that

time,

my

father

passed

away.

So

I

was

told

If

I

leave

Canada,

I

could.

You

know,

I

couldn't

come

back

because

I

have

something

called

the

view

status.

And

also

I

knew

and

my

family

knew,

if

I

go

back

to

China,

that

president

will

stop

me.

I

couldn't

come

back.

Right.

In

Canada,

it's

not

like

in

the

States.

In

the

States

at

the

time,

what

they

did

for

Chinese

students

were

if

they.

If

Chinese

didn't

need

to

go

back

to

visit

during

that

time,

before

their

London

immigrant

was

approved,

the

United

States

will

give

them

something

called

a

return

visa,

which

means

they

stamp

on

their

passport

before

they

leave.

Right.

So

they

don't

have

to

go

through

the

Chinese

system

to

guide

the

visa

to

come

back.

But

Canada

didn't

do

that

for

us.

So

that's

why

it

was

the

last

time

in

a

train

station

in

1988.

Last

time

I

saw

my

father,

I

never

saw

him

again.

And

I

think

it's

important

to

have

this

conversation,

you

know,

in

Tungu

and

you

sharing

your

story

with

us,

because

there

are

so

many

things

that

you

have

to

go

through,

becoming

an

international

student

and

stuff

like

that,

that

you

may

not

ever

see

your

family

again.

You

know,

different

visas

for

different

countries.

You

know,

like

you

said,

like,

the

United

States

is

completely

different

than

Canada.

And

these

are

conversations

that

we

don't

even

bring

to

the

table

that

people

don't

even

know

about.

You

know,

we

hear

of

international

students

coming

and

taking

education,

but

the

transformation

that

you

guys

go

through

and

that

with

the

sacrifices

that

you

make

to

come

and

get

the

education,

too.

Yeah.

And,

you

know,

in

the

summer

of

1991,

my

father

had.

He

had

liver

cancer.

But

at

first,

my

family

didn't

tell

me

that

they.

Because

they

didn't

want

me

to

risk

going

back.

So

they

lied

to

me.

They

said

that

he

had

a

kidney

stone.

And

until

like

a

few.

Like

a

few

months

later,

I

really

finally

learned

the

truth.

I

went

to

the

immigration

office

in

Saskatoon

and

asked

if

they

can

grant

me

a

return

visa

or

if

they

can

speed

up

my

application

because

of

this

special

reason.

You

know

what

that

officer

said?

He

said,

why,

every

time

you

guys

have

a

problem,

you

come

to

us.

At

the

time,

I

was

too

inexperienced.

I

didn't

know

what

to

say.

Like,

now

I

would

have.

I

would

have

said,

well,

it's

for

the.

For

the

sake

of

humanity.

But

at

the

time,

I

did

not

know.

Yeah.

And

then

he

also

said

something

because

what

happened

in

Saskatoon

was

those

graduate

students,

Chinese

graduate

students,

those

who

were

graduated,

they

couldn't

work

because

they

don't

have

a

land

immigrant

status.

They

were

still

students.

So

they

went

to

they

sent

a

few

representatives

and

went

to

the

immigration

office

and

asked

if

they

can

do

something

to.

Because

we

were

already

delayed.

Every

city

already

landed

other

students

in

the

year.

We

at

the

time,

we

were

like

over

two

years.

So.

But

I

was

not

involved

in

that.

I

was

not

a

part

of

it.

I

was

just

too,

too

sad,

too

miserable

about

what

happened

to

my

father.

So.

And

also

that

was

the

time

I

was

writing

my

thesis.

And

anyway,

so

when

I

was

visiting,

like

say

this

immigration

officer,

he

also

said

something.

He

said,

you

guys

send

some

students

to

us

and

because

you

can't

find

a

job,

as

far

as

that

concern,

if

you

guys

go

sweep

the

street,

it's

not

our

problem.

This

is

a

immigration

officer.

When

I

saw

there's

a

two

pictures

on

his,

you

know,

the

desk,

there's

a

glass

top,

you

know,

old

time,

you

put

the

pictures

underneath

and

there

were

two

teenager

girls,

very

pretty.

I.

So

I

asked

him,

I

said,

are

those

your

daughters?

He

said,

yeah.

And

that

was

the

only

time

he

was

like

smiling.

I

wanted

to

ask

him,

well,

suppose

you're

dying

and

your

daughter

want

to

see

you

for

the

very

last

time.

But

I

didn't

dare

to,

you

know,

because

I

carry

the

baggage

of

when

I

came

from

China,

what

those

in

power,

what

they

could

do

to

you.

So

I

was

afraid

if

I

say

that

then

he

would

take

my

application

out

and

just

never

grant

my

application

approval.

Like

I

did

not

know

I

thought

he

could

do

something

like

that,

just

like

in

China,

I

did.

So

it

was

totally

like

he

was

powerful,

I

was

powerless

and

I

couldn't

do

anything

about

it.

So

that's

how

eventually

my

father

died

and,

and

his

last

word

to

me

was

study

hard.

And

the

inheritance,

I

said,

so

called

legacy

I

inherited

from

him

was

a

pen.

That's

everything

he

left

to

me.

So

I

guess

I'm

writing.

I

become

a

writer

for

a

reason.

You

know,

people

ask

me

why

I

write.

Like

I

said,

actually

I

heard

about

this,

I

read

about

this

or

heard

about

this

a

few

weeks

ago.

There's

a

survey,

right,

to

all

the

writers,

to

a

group

of

writers,

like

why

you

write.

So

people

like

a

number

one

reason

we

could

think

about.

Okay,

it's

a

passion,

it's

an

interest,

it's

a

hobby,

it's

a,

you

know,

for

the

fame

or

money

or

whatever.

But

actually

the

number

one

reason

is

none

of

those.

The

number

one

reason

is

to

write

a

wrong.

So

thank

you

for

sharing

that.

You

know,

these

are

stories

that

we

need

to

get

out

there.

These

are

things

you

made

a

sacrifice

to

come

to

a

country

to

learn.

And

you

were

treated,

you

know,

like

the

same

as

back

home.

Like

you,

you

were

on

your

tippy

toes

walking

on

eggshells

all

your

life.

Yeah.

That

fear

of,

I,

I

can't

speak

up,

I

can't

have

a

voice

because

if

I

voice

that

they're

going

to

send

me

back.

They're

gonna,

they're

gonna

take

this

from

me.

Yeah.

And

Liz,

you

know,

the

most

heartbroken

thing

was

my

father

passed

away

because

I

was

told

by

the

immigration

officer,

nobody

is

a

special

case.

Everybody's

special

case.

Basically,

we're

not

going

to

do

anything

for

you.

I

called

the

Foreign

Affair

Department

and

ask,

you

know,

I

was

just

trying

to

ask

where,

where

was

my

application?

And,

and

I

got

a

flat.

No,

like,

say,

we're

not

going

to

tell

you

anything.

We're

not

going

to

check

anything

for

you.

So

my

father

passed

away

on

November

13,

before

Christmas

of

1991.

All

of

a

sudden,

all

of

us,

like

Chinese

students

in

Saskatoon,

we

got

the

notice

that

we

need

to

be

landed

before

Christmas

because

suddenly

they

found

out

the

foreign

affair

or

immigration

department,

they

found

out

that

they

couldn't

fulfill

that

year's

data

quota.

Immigration

quota.

Well,

even

though

we

were

told

we

had

nothing

to

do

with

the

quota,

it

seems

like

a

Saskatoon

put

us

as

a

regular

immigrant,

not

the

special

case.

So

before

Christmas

they

found

out

they

couldn't

fulfill

the

quota.

So

we

were

notified

to

go

and

go

to

the

office

and

get

our

paper

and

we

were

landed.

So

I

remember

I

was

in

the

office

and

this

time

it's

a

different

immigration

officer.

So

after,

you

know,

he

hand

me

the

certificate

and

we

shake

hand

and

she,

he

said,

congratulations.

I

just

said

thank

you.

Then

I

came

out,

I

rushed

to

the

washroom.

I

was

cry

in

a

wash,

washroom

like

a

puddle

of

water.

So.

And

then

later

I

found

out,

you

know,

actually

my

immigration

was

approved

on

October

30th.

October

30th.

My

father

passed

away

in

November.

On

November

13th.

If

somebody

just

checked

it,

if

somebody

just

checked

it

could,

you

know,

let

me

get

me

landed

before

that.

I

could

still

fly

home

and

say

him

for,

for

the

last

time.

But

nobody

did.

So,

Tanku,

when

you're

writing,

I'm

sure

your

father's

spirit

is

with

you

and

he's

giving

you

that

strength

to

stay

strong.

Right.

So

how

have

you

stayed

strong

since

then?

Well,

I

think

when

you

have

a

goal,

it

make

you

endure.

We're

talking

about

tribulation,

endurance.

She's

going

into

her

tea.

Look

at

that.

We're,

we're

going

to

start

spilling.

Yeah.

Adversity.

I

think

you

have

to

have

a

goal,

you

have

to

have

hope.

Without

hope.

I

don't

know

how

one

could

take

all

this.

Like

my

suffering.

It's

just

not

my

suffering.

Like

the

three

generations

from

my

family

which

represent

basically

Chinese

people,

like

what

we

suffered

are

so

much.

My

grandmother

suffered

through

the

worst

poverty,

political

regime

changes.

And

you

know,

like

my

generation

at

least

were

alive.

Like

we're

like.

Even

like

my

father

died

of

diseases,

right?

But

in

my

grandmother's

generation,

my

actually

the

husband

of

my

aunt,

which

was

like

a

daisy

in

the

book,

and

he

was

executed

in

1950

by

the

communist.

He

was,

he

was

not

even

a

counter

revolutionary.

You

know

why?

Because

they

need

to

fill

the

quota

of

5%.

Because

Chairman

Mao

said

5%.

The

Chinese

are

counter

revolutionary.

So

at

the

lower

level,

the

leaders

the

cartridge

at

the

card.

At

the

lower

level,

they

felt

they

need

to

have

5%.

So

when

this

village

didn't

have

5%,

counter

revolution,

the

village

had

approached

my

aunt's

husband

the

basically

said,

you

know,

would

you

please

come

forward?

Just

help

me

out.

Just

help

me

just

fill

this

quota.

Nothing

will

happen.

And

as

ignorant

as

he

was,

he

said,

okay,

sure,

I

like

to

help

you.

Just

put

my

name

in.

So

for

the

first

six

months,

nothing

happened.

Then

all

of

a

sudden

there's

a

like

a

order

from

above.

Every

single

one

was.

Was

executed.

That's

how

he

died.

That

was

a

truth

that

was

not

fictional.

But

that's

what

it

is,

right?

There's

so

much

truth

that

hasn't

been

shared

with

the

world,

you

know,

because

it's

covered

up,

right?

Yeah.

By

the

higher

ups,

by

the

people

that

have

the

control

and

the

power

and

that,

you

know,

sharing

your

story

and

expressing

the

hurt

and

sacrifices

and

fight

that

you

had

for

your

life

and

becoming

this

incredible

author

and

writer

and

poet

is

really

inspiring.

It

really

gives

people

hope

and

the

listeners

out

there.

I

just

want

to

share

a

little

couple

of

the

comments

that

are

coming

in

shadow

Put.

Wow,

that's

a

pretty

impressive

of

story.

I

commend

you

for

migrating

to

Canada

and

making

a

great

success

out

of

your

life.

I

am

so

sorry

for

your

father's

passing.

You

are

such

a

sweetheart,

Tungu.

Study

hard.

That's

right.

It's

hard

to

be

shunned

being

told

to

shut

up

and

sit

down.

That's

wrong.

I've

been

treated

that

like

that

too.

Be.

Be

cannot

control

how

others

think

and

respond.

But

for

us

it's

a

must.

It's

hurt

to

be

shunned.

Being

told

to

be

quiet,

you

know,

being

shunned

be

making

the

sacrifices

coming

for

education.

Learning

that

human

race

is

not

being

treated

equally

is

why

is

sorry

is.

Is

why

I

do

these

tea

times

and

why

I

love

having

stories

like

yours

on

tea

time,

Tungu

is

because

you

open

those

doors

of

true

and

the

truth

needs

to

get

out

there.

These

stories

need

to

be

heard,

you

know.

And

the

house

filler,

you

started

with

your

grandma,

then

you

shared

with

your

parents

and

you

shared

your

story.

So

tell

us

a

little

bit

about

your

parents

story

and

your

story.

Can

people

get

that

book

or

is

those.

Are,

are

those

upcoming

books

that

are

coming?

Those

are

not

out

yet.

The

second

book,

the

title

is

called

the

Pin

in

the

Bird.

The

third

one,

the

working

title

is

the

Dream

Chaser.

So

my

parents,

they

were

both

intellectuals.

And

intellectuals

in

China

had

never

been

treated

fairly.

So

even

like

way

back

when,

I

think

in

Qing

Dynasty

they

have,

in

China

they

have

a

class

system.

So

the

intellectuals

were

like

nice

class,

they

were

only

above

beggars,

but

they

are

still

below

the

prostitutes.

So

intellectuals

was

a

nice

class.

So

that's

why

in

China

there's

a.

They

call

like

Internet

intellectuals

number

nine,

which

means

they're

in

ninth

class.

But

the

Chairman

Mao,

he

disliked

intellectuals

so

much,

he

called

intellectuals

the

sticky

stinky

old

man.

So

when

I

was

a

child,

I

know

my

father

was

a

stinky

old

man,

but

you

know,

during

the

Cultural

Revolution,

he

was

locked

up

with

all

his

colleagues

in

the

car

shed.

Well,

COD

is

a

general

term

for

a

place

to

lock.

You

know,

it's

not

a

jail,

it's

never.

Those

people

were

locked

up.

They

never

gone

through

the

legal

system,

There

was

no

legal

system.

So

it's

just

a

place

to

lock

people

up.

So

it's

called

car

shed.

So

my,

like

in

the

college,

the

first

lockup,

all

the

professors,

My,

my

dad

was

an

associate

professor.

So

when

they

locked

up

all

the

professors,

then

they

start

to

lock

up

the

associate

professors.

You

know

why?

Because,

because

like

my

dad,

all

these

professors,

they

were,

they

obtained

their

university

degree

in

old

society

like

before

1949.

So

China

was

against

the

capitalism.

And

we

were

told

that

knowledge

is

a

type

of

capital.

So

anybody

had

knowledge

was

also

a

capitalist.

So

that's

why

they

were

locked

up

just

for

their

occupation.

Right.

But

you

know,

some

people

died

in

that

culture.

Not

everybody

survived.

My

dad

survived,

but

not

everybody

survived.

And

so

like

I

had,

I

have

a

sister

who

is

much

older

than

me.

It's

very

strange.

We're

from

same

family.

You

know

why

I

knew,

I

admire

my,

my

dad

so

much.

So

I,

you

know

what

I

said?

I

said,

oh,

so

first

of

all,

what

she

decided

when

she

was

young,

right.

She

said

not

only

she

didn't

want

to

become

a

stinking

old

nan,

which

means

she

didn't

want

to

go

to

university,

she

didn't

even

want

to

marry,

marry

someone

who

has

a

university

degree

because

she

didn't

want

to

have

anything

to

do

with

stinky

old

man.

You

know

what?

I,

I

was

only

like

a

5

or

6

years

old.

I

said,

you

know,

I

want

to

be

a

stinking

old

man

because

my

dad

was.

You

were

daddy's

girl.

Yeah,

exactly.

You

know,

sometimes

we

got

to

be

daddy

girls

and

we

got

to

be

for

the

stinky

old

man.

Yeah,

that's

right.

Somebody

has

to

stand

up

for

that

man.

Right,

exactly.

Yeah.

So

that's

my

parents

story.

But

they

had

dreams.

Like

my

dad

was

a

scientist

and

my

mom

too,

but

because

of

all

these

political

campaigns

and

they

never

achieved.

Like

my,

my

dad

was

well

known

in

his

field,

but

my

mom

never

achieved

anything.

So

I

think

that's

made

her

better.

Very

bitter

later

because

she

was

very

smart,

extreme

like

she

had

a

very

high

iq,

I

believe,

very

smart

and,

but

she

never

achieved

her

dream

become

a

great

scientist.

So

she

put

all

her

hope

on

me.

So

like

when

I

was

a

child,

I,

I

shoulder

like

a,

two

generations

of

hope

on

my

shoulders.

I

have

to

be

like

number

one

on

like

a

study

grade

all

the

time

because

I

knew

that's

what

I

was

expected

of.

Yeah.

Anyway.

And

that

also

took

a

toll

on

you

as

well.

Yeah,

but

I

was,

I

love

to

study.

I'm,

I'm

a

person.

Like

I,

I,

my

true

passion

is

the

literature.

But

I,

I'm

disciplined

enough

to

study

things

I

don't

like

and

still

get

really

good

marks

like

win

the

competitions

and

all

that.

Even

though

I,

I

don't

like

it.

I

could

do

it.

Yeah.

But

tango,

let's

get

into

your

tea.

Because

you

got

into

a

little

bit

of

the

endurance.

She

jumped

in

the,

into

the

middle

of

the

tea.

Let's

talk

about

the

beginning

of

the

tea.

The

tribute.

Tribulations,

endurance

and

adversaries.

Adversary

adversity.

Let's

talk

about

those

three

words.

Why

you

gave

me

those

three

words.