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time

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time

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time

time.

Making

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one

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Te

time,

time,

time.

Well,

welcome

back

to

tea

time.

That's

right,

we

were

in

the

house

this

afternoon

at

3:00

and

we

had

the

amazing

Catherine

M.K.

mitchell

in

the

house

and

she

sports

spoke

about

her

book.

Now

I

have

the

incredible

David

Shine

in

the

house

and

we're

going

to

be

talking

about

his

book

and

all

of

that

good

stuff

and

his

tea.

And

his

tea

tonight

is

teaching

ethics

applications.

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right.

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serve

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tea

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Ms.

Liz's

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Liz

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the

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of

David

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David

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Moving

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myself,

Ms.

Liz

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Time

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Ms.

Liz.

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can

always

listen

to

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Times

in

in

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own

time

and

on

your

own

on

your

own

pace.

So

now

a

little

bit

about

my

incredible

guest.

Well,

I

have

Dr.

David

Shine

is

an

international

speaker,

best

selling

author,

tender

professor,

attorney,

attorney,

HR

consultant

and

President

of

Claremont

Management

Group

Industry.

Dr.

Shine

is

the

bestselling

author

of

Bad

deal

for

America

2022

and

the

deadline

of

America

100

years

of

leadership

failures

2018

analysts

of

100

years

of

US

presidents

from

the

Wilson

Wilson

to

Obama.

These

men,

eight

Democrats

and

nine

rep

Republicans

have

shaped

the

last

century

for

both

America

and

the

world.

Shine

profile

their

leadership

qualities,

personal

ethics

and

professional

ethics

with

unsparring

scrunch

scrunchie

while

placing

them

in

historical

context

and

assigning

a

letter

grade

for

compassion.

While

Con

Conservatives

Radio

loves

to

bash

my

ivy

League

academics,

Dr.

Shine

is

an

Ivy

League

graduate

and

a

full

time

academic

plus

a

solid

conservative

conservative

conservative.

He

has

a

radio.

He

has

radio

experience

and

hosts

the

podcast

Saving

America

and

Business

Law

101.

So

let

me

get

David

in

here,

we're

going

to

spill

some

tea

together.

Welcome

David.

Thank

you

so

much

miss

Liz.

I've

enjoyed

getting

to

meet

you

in

person

and

it's

a

pleasure

to

be

with

you

tonight.

Well,

it

is

a

pleasure

to

have

you

here.

I've

never

had

an

attorney

on

tee

time

so

maybe

I

gotta

be

a

good

girl

tonight.

Well,

we

try

and

make

sure

that

we're

one

of

the

rational

attorneys

We

I'm

what's

known

in

I

of

course

I'm

a

full

time

professor

today

so

I

don't

do

very

much

legal

work

And

I

don't

do

any

trial

work

anymore.

In

fact,

earlier

today,

I

was

at

the

association

that

I

belong

to

of

dispute

resolvers.

And

those

are

people

who

do

mediation

and

arbitrations,

because

that's

a

much

more

efficient

way

to

resolve

disputes

than

to

go

to

court.

And

unfortunately,

we

waste.

In

the

United

States,

we

have

a

very

litigious

society,

and

we

do

waste

enormous

amounts

of

money

suing

each

other.

And

some

of

it

is

certainly

justified,

but

a

lot

of

it,

it

tends

to

make

the

attorneys

rich

and

doesn't

necessarily

contribute

as

much

to

society

as

we'd

like

to

see.

It's.

It's

kind

of

turned

into

a

lottery

system

where

a

few

people

win

these

huge

awards

and

the

rest

of

us

pay

for

that.

And

that's,

I

think,

something

a

lot

of

people

miss

is

because

of

these

huge

awards,

is

what

ends

up

with

our

auto

insurance

and

our

homeowners

insurance

being

at

such

high

levels,

especially

in

big

urban

areas

where

I

am

in

Houston,

Texas,

our

insurance

rates

are

very

high.

So,

Dr.

David,

I

want

to

take

you

back

until

you

were

a

little

guy.

What

got

you

into

the

law

and

management

and

all

the

business

world

and

everything.

So

tell

us

a

little

bit

about

who

you

were

as

a

little

guy

and

who

you

are

now.

I

actually,

as

a

little

guy,

wanted

to

be

a

psychiatrist,

believe

it

or

not.

So

I

grew

up

through

middle

school

and

high

school

planning

to

go

to

medical

school.

And

it's

actually

the

subject

of

the

book

I'm

working

on.

The

current

book

is

called

A

Cheap

Education,

and

it

is

a

very

different

book.

My

first

two

books

were

on

political

management.

And

this

book

is

a

fiction

based

on

fact

about

my

college

experience.

And

so

I

started

at

the

University

of

Pennsylvania

in

Philadelphia

as

a

green

college

student,

had

never

been

on

the

college

campus

until

I

showed

up

for

the

first

day

of

classes.

And

it

was

quite

a

shock

for

me,

coming

out

of

a

big

family

and

ending

up

in

a

dorm

room

and

in

a

big

city

and

so

forth.

What

happened,

though,

is

my

very

first

semester,

while

I'm

trying

to

adjust

all

this,

I

had

a

work

study

job.

I

was

a

scholarship

student,

and

I

was

assigned

to

work

with

a

medical

doctor,

of

all

things,

and

not

just

to

do

a

little

research.

I

did

a

little

research

in

a

library

form

that

he

was

very

happy

with.

But

then

he

said,

well,

I

need

help

with

my

patients

being

tested.

So

I'm

like,

well,

okay,

that's

what

I'm

assigned

to

do.

I

guess

I'll

show

up

at

the

hospital

and

do

that.

And

the

testing

involved

testing

people

who

had

gangrene

on

their

feet

or

their

toes.

And

we

were

administering

a

temperature

type

test

to

determine

if

these

very

damaged

limbs

could

be

saved.

That

was

the

purpose

of

the

testing.

So

it's

very

worthwhile

testing,

but

it

was

a

huge

turn

off

and

it

was

very

difficult

for

me

to

deal

with

the

situation.

And

so

I

struggled.

I

left

that

job

before

the

end

of

the

first

semester,

struggled

through

another

semester,

pre

med.

In

about

my

third

semester

of

college,

I

said,

you

know,

this

is

really

not

working

out

for

me.

I

really

lost

that

interest.

So

I

went,

believe

it

or

not,

to

career

services

at

the

university.

And

they

tested

me

and

they

said,

well,

you're

off

the

charts

to

be

a

lawyer.

We

don't

know

if

you

want

to

do

that,

but

you're

off

the

charts

to

be

a

lawyer.

So

I

said,

well,

that

sounds

pretty

interesting.

And

so

I

very

abruptly

switched

all

of

my

course

load.

And

the

positive

part

was

I

took

all

these

science

courses.

So

I'd

met

all

my

distributional

requirements

in

the

first

three

semesters

back

when

there

was

a

very

heavy

distributional

load

of

so

many

science,

so

many

math,

so

many

English.

So

I

was

basically

free

from

that

point

forward

to

take

a

lot

of

business

courses.

And

I

ended

up

with

a

bachelor's

degree

in

transportation

Economics.

And

while

I

was

there

doing

all

that,

I

started

my

own

business

and

I

began

to

really

look

at

the

world

of

business.

And

that's

also

when

I

ended

up

on

public

radio

with

a

weekly

one

hour

radio

program.

And

all

that

stuff

kind

of

came

together.

And

I

said,

I

think

I

want

to,

you

know,

definitely

go

to

law

school.

So

that's,

that's

the

bizarre

about,

you

know,

it's

about

as

180

degrees

as

you

can

be.

Well,

I

think

that

we

get,

we

get

these

paths

right

where

we

have

to

go

left

sometimes.

And

we're

like,

why

are

we

going

left

when

we

should

be

going

right?

We

want

to

go

right,

but

we're

going

left,

right?

Yes.

So

I

want

to

talk

about

your

tea

tonight,

David.

Your

tea

you

gave

me

is

teaching

ethics

and

applications.

Why

did

you

give

me

those

three

words

for

your

tea?

I

made

a

decision

as

I

finished

law

school

that

after

about

25

years

as

an

attorney,

I

would

become

a

teacher.

And

I

felt

that

we

still

suffer

in

the

United

States

from

too

many

lawyers.

And

so

I

by

this

time,

you

know,

very

invested

in

business

and

I

still.

And

all

that.

So

at

about

25

years

out

of

law

school,

I

put

my

life

on

hold

and

went

back

to

school

and

got

a

PhD

in

higher

education

management,

a

very

focused

Degree

and

at

the

University

of

Virginia

and

it

was

a

very

life

changing

experience.

I

did

do

some

law

practice

and

some

alternative

dispute

resolution

to

keep

the

bills

paid.

But

I

did

earn

a

fellowship

at

the

university

for

my

PhD

so

that

helped

a

fantastic

amount.

And

then

I

have

been

a

full

time

teacher

but

I

retain

my

law

license

and

I

still

do

some

part

time

law

practice

to

help

keep

the

bills

paid.

But

I

really

enjoy

the

subject

of

ethics.

And

so

my

paper

in

my

Dissertation

for

my

PhD

is

on

teaching

business

ethics.

It's

actually

specific

dissertation

topic

and

I

explored

a

lot

about

the

world

of

ethics.

It

was

very

interesting

for

me

because

I

do

not

have

a

philosophy

undergraduate

program

but

here

I

was,

I

took

some

PhD

ethics

courses

with

people

pursuing

a

PhD

in

philosophy

and

that

was

very

interesting

for

me

that

you

know

the

hardcore

businessman

slash

lawyer

hanging

out

with

these

folks

that

were

in

the

more

in

the

stratospheric

level

of

philosophical

ethics

which

is

not

my

area.

Mine

is

what

people

would

call

applied

ethics.

This

is

the

stuff

that

we

use

every

day

in

business.

How

do

we

treat

our

customers,

how

do

we

treat

our

vendors,

how

do

we

treat

our

employees?

And

I

try

and

live

up

to

that

personally.

One

simple

example

is

I

am

an

absolute

fanatic

about

paying

my

bills.

And

we

do

have

interns,

we

have

people

that

help

us

do

different

things.

I

own

my

own

office

so

we

have

people

cut

the

grass

and

clean

the

house

once

a

week,

things

like

that.

And

I

make

sure

everybody

gets

paid

every

week

or

very

quickly.

We

pay

a

lot

of

people

today

by

Zelle

which

means

somebody

can

submit

an

invoice

and

they

get

paid

in

a

day

or

two

and

it's

right

in

their

bank

account.

So

that's

part

of.

I

know

it

may

sound

trivial

to

some

people

but

to

me

as

a

small

business

operator

myself

of

several

over

his

my

time

is

it's

really

important

to

get

paid.

It's

not

an

exaggeration.

It

helps

keep

your

bills

paid

to

keep

somebody

else's

bills

paid.

So

and

I

do

very,

very

much

enjoy

working

with

my

students

and

I

try

and

incorporate

an

ethical

line

in

all

of

my

teaching.

Well

David,

how

do

you

feel

about

the

ethics

in

the

business

world

today?

Well,

I'm

hoping

it's

a

little

better

than

it

was

in

the

past.

And

actually

I'm

grading

papers

for

my

MBA

candidates

to

and

I

graded

a

couple

papers

before

I

signed

on

with

you

and

the

students

are

doing

papers

on

ethical

failures

and

the

two

focus

seems

to

be

Enron,

Wilcom,

which

was

2001,

2002

and

of

course

Lehman

Brothers

and

the

other

big

meltdowns

in

2008,

which,

you

know,

the

big

financial

crisis

we

had

in

the

United

States.

So

I'm

hoping

that

the

current

crop

of

business

students

and

the

young

business

owners

that

I

meet

at

different

networkers

and

things

have

a

more

affirmative

approach

to

ethics

than

what

we've

seen

by

the

previous

generations

of

failures.

Remember,

even

though

these

massive

failures

were

so

important,

the

reality

is

that

the

vast

majority

of

business

people

are

indeed

hard

working,

ethical

people.

And

sometimes

it's

unfortunate

because

you

read,

and

I'm

active

on

LinkedIn

on

social

media

and

other

sites

is

people

make

very

sweeping

statements

about

the

greed

of

business

and

all

that.

And

the

reality

is

really

not

that

a

lot

of

businesses

provide

very

significant

amounts

of

funds

to

different

charities.

Most

businesses

have

adopted

specific

charities

and

provide

enormous

support.

Some

businesses

also

will

have

employee

volunteer

groups

who

go

out,

maintain

a

piece

of

the

highway

near

them,

or

go

out

and

build

a

house.

There's

different

groups

that

do

that.

So

I

think

sometimes

business

does

get

a

bad

rep.

But

there's

certainly

a

need

to

continue

to

emphasize

a

focus

on

ethics

across

the

board

and

even

in

our

personal

lives,

how

we

deal

with

our

friends

and

how

we

deal

with

our

neighbors.

David,

we

have

a

question

here.

Do

you

find

the

ethics

are

better

in

small

businesses

or

the

corporate

world?

I'd

like

to

think

it's

good

across

the

board,

but

I

think,

because

here's

what

happened,

I

think

in

the

small

businesses,

the

majority

of

small

businesses,

I

think,

operate

at

a

very

strong

ethical

level,

honestly,

because

they

probably

don't

have

much

choice

because

if

they

are

unethical

with

a

couple

people,

word

gets

along

their

community

out

in

their

community,

it's

going

to

shut

them

down

very

quickly.

Whereas

the

big

businesses,

I

guess

a

very

quick,

a

relatively

recent

example,

2015,

was

the

big

Wells

Fargo

deal

where

the

tellers

and

the

people

working

at

the

retail

end

of

the

bank

were

being

given

bonuses

for

opening

bank

accounts.

And

these

folks

opened

a

whole

bunch

of

fake

accounts

in

order

to

make

bonuses.

It

was

a

very

unfortunate

situation.

But

that

can

happen

in

a

big

business,

whereas

in

a

small

business

you

would

have

figured

it

out

in

one

or

two

days.

And

I'm

not

sure

how

long

it

took

Wells

Fargo,

but

it

was

quite

a

period

of

time

before

people

jumped

up

and

said,

oh

my

goodness,

we've,

we've

got,

you

know,

a

25

million

dollar.

I

forget

what

the

exact

amount

of

scandal

was,

but

it

was

a

huge

scandal

by

the

time

it

hit

the

public.

And

I

do

think

that

the

senior

executives

at

Wells

Fargo

found

it,

shut

it

down

and

did

the

cleanup.

But

of

course,

by

that

time

there

had

been

a

tremendous

amount

of

damage.

So

I

think

in

general,

small

businesses

do

need

or

do

tend

to

operate

more

ethically

or

they

tend

to

go

out

of

business

very

quickly.

Now

we

have

another

question

here

about

ethics

and

the

educational

systems.

Do

you

find

that

there's

enough

ethics

in

the

classroom?

Well,

it

all

depends

on

what

level

you're

at.

It's

odd,

but

I

can

make

the

question

very

personal

to

Houston,

Texas.

We

have

uncovered

a

scandal

in

the

news

here

that

apparently

we

had

a

period

where

teachers

in

the

Houston

Independent

School

District,

which

is

the

third

or

fourth

largest

school

district

in

the

United,

had

to

be

certified

in

their

certification

exams.

And

it

was

just

discovered

that

over

200

teachers

had

paid

other

people

to

take

their

certification

exams.

And

I'd

heard

recently

this

is

still

going

on,

by

the

way.

I'd

heard

recently

that

what

may

have

happened

is

some

of

these

people

may

have

failed

a

certification

exam

once

or

twice.

And

apparently

there's

a

limit

to

how

many

times

you

can

take

the

exam.

And

so

if

they

got

to

this

third,

you

know,

opportunity,

they

may

have

paid

somebody

to

take

it.

And

of

course,

it's

the

typical

situation

where

there

was

a

ringleader

teacher

and

he

had

three

or

four

folks

that

were

very

good

at

these

certification

exams

and

they

would

get

thousands

of

dollars

for

taking

exercise

exams

for

people.

And

it's

a

very

sad

situation.

And

of

course

we

had

it's

believe

it

or

not,

the

ringleader

is

already

out

of

prison.

But

about

five

years

ago,

we

had

something

called

Varsity

Blues

where

a

fellow

out

in

California

had

figured

out

a

way

to

cheat

the

system

to

get

the

children

of

wealthy

people

and

celebrities

into

big

name

colleges,

University

of

Southern

Cal,

some

of

the

Ivy

Leagues

and

so

forth

by

misrepresenting

some

of

them

as

athletes

who

were

not

athletes.

And

also

people

going

in

and

taking

the

SAT

exams

for

students

and

other

entrance

exams.

So

unfortunately

we

have

had

some

significant

issues.

But

again,

the

vast

majority

of

students

just

crank

it

out.

They

do

whatever

prep

they

can

and

they

go

take

the

SAT

exam

or

the

law

boards,

med

boards

and

things

like

that.

So

these

scandals

do

not

represent

the

majority

of

people

in

there.

Now

a

different

story,

which

is

much

more

political

one.

I

don't

know

if

people

wanted

me

to

go

in

that

direction,

but

there

is

a

great

deal

of

criticism

today

of

higher

education

that

it

has

abandoned

basic

common

sense

and

how

do

we

deal

with

people,

how

do

we

treat

each

other

and

that

the

wokeness

and

the

DEI

have

caused

higher

Education

to

move

away

from

basic

meritocracy.

Basic.

Here

are

the

things.

And

I

was

talking

to

a

parent,

parent

of

a

college

freshman

today

and

she

was

expressing

distress

at

the

fact

that

people

are

finishing

high

school

and

have

never

done

any

significant

amount

of

writing

or

research.

And

so

I

don't

think

that's

ethical.

I

think

having

stringent

standards

is

really

important

and

I

feel

very

fortunate.

K

through

8th

grade,

I

had

the

old

fashioned

nuns

with

the

big

black

habits

and

the

white

platons

and

this.

And

they

were

a

tough

bunch,

let

me

tell

you.

They

were

focused

on

teaching

us

and

they,

they

were

very

attentive.

I.

And

so

that

was

a

great

background

for

me

to

go

into

high

school.

I

was

fortunate

enough

to

attend

some

good

high

schools.

Attended

one

for

freshman

year

and

then

three

years

of

senior

high

at

a

different

high

school.

And

the

teachers

were

wonderful

focused

and

I

was

doing

full

research

papers

with

footnotes

as

a

junior

in

high

school.

And

so

when

I

got

to

college,

writing

papers

was.

It

was

just

what

I

did

and

it

helped

me

do

well

in

my

later

college.

I

didn't

do

paper

particularly

well

in

the

science

courses,

but

once

I

got

past

that

and

got

into

the

economics

and

those

advanced

courses,

a

lot

of

them

required

papers

and

I

did

very

well

there.

So

I'd

like

to

see

us

refocus

K

through

12

education

to

prepare

students

better

for

a

more

ambitious

college

experience.

And

I

think

that's

ethics.

I

think

if

I

applied

an

ethical

analysis

to

K

through

12,

I'd

be.

I

don't

consider

you

an

ethics

ethical

principal

or

an

ethics

ethical

school

system.

If

your

kids

are

coming

out

of

your

high

schools

and

cannot

do

good

math

and

cannot

do,

you

know,

decent

writing

and

stuff

like

that.

So

I'm

quite

frustrated

as

a

college

professor

that

we're

getting

students

who

aren't

really

ready

for

college.

Yeah.

Because

I

know

here

in

Canada

it's

no

child

gets

left

behind.

Right.

Whether

you

do

the

homework

or

you

understand

the

question

and

the

problems,

you're

just

going

ahead.

So

the

children

are

going

ahead,

not

understanding,

Right?

Absolutely.

And

no

Child

Left

behind

is

a

very

positive

theory,

but

it's

been

applied

wrongly.

No

Child

Left

behind

means

if

we

have

a

child

that

is

not

performing

well,

we

spend

extra

time

with

that

child

and

we

make

sure

that

that

child

gets

the

attention

that

they

need

to

meet

the

upper

standard

and

not

to

lower

the

standard

to

the,

to

the

lowest

common

denominator.

And

I

have

a

personal

experience.

I

have.

My

younger

son

was

learning

disabled

and

I

spent

an

enormous

amount

of

time

when

he

was,

he

Was

diagnosed

in

first

grade.

And

I

worked

intensively

with

him

from

first

grade

into

about

the

middle

of

sixth

grade.

And

it

was

kind

of

interesting

because

about

the

middle

of

sixth

grade,

he

said,

dad,

I've

got

it.

You

don't

need

to

do

your

homework

with

me

anymore.

And

I

had

this

sense

of

withdrawal

because

it

was

like,

you

know,

how

can

he

survive

without

me?

And

he

did

really

well.

In

fact,

he

didn't

go

direct

to

college,

but

after

taking

a

break

and

working,

and

he

did

go

back

to

college

and

finish

first

in

his

college

class

at

Texas

am.

So

it

worked

out

pretty

well.

But

that's

the

point,

is

if

you

have

a

child

with

special

needs

and

we

have

autistic

children

out

there,

we

have

children

who

have

dyslexia

and

other

conditions,

which

is

what

my

son

had,

there

is

a

reward,

and

it

does

take

a

lot

of

patience,

and

it

takes

a

lot

of

focus.

There

are

a

lot

of,

at

least

in

the

United

States,

a

lot

of

public

school

systems.

Ironically,

the

urban

schools

have

done

a

better

job

of

providing

that.

So

my

son

was

originally

in

a

suburban

school

district,

and

we

were

able

to

move

him

into

an

urban

district.

And

the

urban

district

had

more

special

ed

capacity

than

some

of

the

suburban

districts.

Even

silly

stuff

like

he

was

in

a

suburban

school

that

had

no.

No

walls.

It

was

just

a

big

open

space,

and

the

students

were

in

little

groups

in

a

giant

room.

Well,

that

sounds

like

really

cool

and

really

modern.

When

you

have

a

child

that

has

either

ADHD

or

dyslexia,

they've

got

to

focus.

You've

got

to

have

them

in

a

real

classroom

with

walls.

And

that

makes

a

big

difference

in

that.

So

I

was

able

to

move

him

into

a

school.

The

other

thing

that

I

try

to

emphasize

over

and

over

again

is

parental

involvement.

Absolutely

100%

silly

story

on

my

part

is.

So

I

have

this

special

ed

child,

and

he's

in

elementary

school

at

this

point.

And

I,

of

course,

I

look

like

I

do

today.

I'm

wearing

a

suit.

I

show

up

at

these,

we

call

ARD

meetings,

a

R

D

ARD

meetings.

And

the

teachers

are

blown

away

meeting

with

me

because

they

never

had

a

man

attend

an

ARD

meeting,

which

is

just

crazy,

is

that

we've

delegated

that

to

the

moms.

In

my

case,

I

was

a

single

dad,

and

I

was

going

to

be

the

parent

who

was

there.

But

it

never

occurred

to

me

when

I

walked

into

my

first

couple

of

ARD

meetings

that

they'd

never

had

a

dad

show

up

to

help

the

kids.

And

so

he

got

a

lot

of

attention.

You

know,

that's

a

good

point

because

even

when

my

children

were

in

school,

it

was

always

me

that

went

to

the

meeting

too.

Yeah,

well,

I'm

pleased

to

say

that

Rachel

Harrison,

who

runs

my

consulting

practice,

she

is

a

child

that

needs

a

little

extra

attention.

And

both

she

and

her

husband

are

going

to

those

meetings

together,

which

I

think

is

optimal.

I

think

that's

a

terrific

thing

to

do.

And

parents

need

to

understand

that

that

investment

of

time

when

they're

little

pays

enormous

dividends

when

they

get

older

and

they're

not

going

to

come

home

and

they're

not

going

to

be.

I

think

somebody

called

them

the

yo

yo

children.

They

went

out

and

came

back

home.

And

I

tell

people

I

must

yo

yo

back

David.

I

must

have

been

a

terrible

dad

because

my

kids,

boy,

they

finished

school

and

they

were

gone.

And

I

think

that's

a

good

thing.

Well,

back

in

the

day

we

wanted

to

play

outside,

right?

We

waited

for

the

street

lights

to

come

on

to

come

in

the

house.

Now

it's

a,

it's

hard

to

get

a

child

outside

just

to

play.

A

lot

of

parents

are

limiting

phone

time

and

you

know,

the

phones

have

become

ubiquitous

even

for

youngsters

and

computer

time

and

computer

games.

And

I

think

it's

very,

very

important

that

we

limit

what's

called

screen

time,

which

can

include,

you

know,

television.

And

kids

do

not

have

to

be

in

sports

per

se,

but

getting

out

and

certainly

some

of

the

things

I

think

are

very

positive

is

when

I

was

a

little

kid,

and

I

was

a

little

kid

a

long

time

ago,

frankly,

the

only

thing

that

we

had

was

little

league

for

boys

and

then

the

girls

could

go

to

dance

class

and

occasionally

you'd

have

a

boy

that

got

roped

in

by

his

mom

who

went

to

dance

class.

But

other

than

that

it

really

wasn't

much

of

an

involvement.

And

I

think

what's

very

exciting

today

is

we

have,

despite

much

of

the

publicity

today,

we,

the

really

little

kids

are

engaged

in

co

ed

soccer

and

co

ed

sports

at

kindergarten

level,

sixth,

seventh

grade.

And

they

get

out

there

and

they

have

a

lot

more

sports

options.

And

then

beyond

that,

especially

because

of

title

nine,

which

is

I'm

a

big

fan

of

Title

nine

is

we've

got

gals

playing

volleyball,

softball,

baseball,

bat,

you

know,

the

whole

litany

of

sports

other

than

football,

which

I'm

not

sure

I'm

glad

neither

of

my

boys

played

football

and

I'm

kind

of

happy

about

that

because

I

played

freshman

football

as

a

really

skinny

kid

and

I

didn't

go

out

for

spring

training

the

next

season.

And

the

240

pound

lineman

said

to

Me,

hey,

Dave,

you

know,

you

coming

out

for

spring

practice?

I

said,

no,

I

think

I've

got

that

figured

out.

So

they

don't,

they

don't

have

to

play

football

or

even

the

big

sports.

But

I

took

up

tennis

very

late

in

life.

Sadly,

I

did

not

take

up

tennis

until

I

was

already

in

law

school.

But

I

didn't

learn

the

basics

that

a

lot

of

people

learn

if

they

start

in,

you

know,

later

middle

school

or

in

high

school.

So

I

do

encourage

people

play

sports,

but

it

doesn't

have

to

be

football

or

the

Big

Three.

Football,

basketball,

baseball.

There's

lots

of

different

sports.

And

again,

lots

of

sports

where

there's

a

men's

team

and

the

ladies

team.

And

I

think

that's

all

very

positive.

It

helps

to

develop

a

different

type

of

discipline.

I

am

very

critical,

however,

as

an

academic

that

were

paying

such

ludicrous

salaries

to

the

coaches

of

the

big

three

sports.

You

know,

the

millions

and

millions

of

dollars

for

the,

for

these

coaches

and,

you

know,

the

professors.

When

people

talk

about

college

costs,

I

do

want

to

put

a

little

pitch

in

here

and

say,

it

is

not

being

given

to

the

faculty,

especially

not

a

small

college

like

where

I

teach

is.

It's

very,

very

lean.

And

yet

people

say,

but

these

college

budgets

are

gigantic

and

they

just

keep

going

up

and

up

and

up.

And

a

lot

of

that

is

not

in

actual

faculty

salaries.

It's

not

being

used

in

the

classroom.

And

that

to

me

is

kind

of

an

educational

scandal.

And

I'd

like

to

see

us

focus

on

taking

care

of

the

faculty

and

focusing

on

education

and

maybe

a

little

less

of

the

mandated

overhead

that

these

colleges

are

spending

a

lot

of

money

on

today.

Well,

I

think

by

having

a

voice

and

bringing

it

to

attention

to

everyone,

right.

We

can

look

at

those

things

and

say,

let's

make

some

changes.

You

know,

I'm

a

strong

believer

if

we

don't

talk

about

it

and

we

don't

bring

it

to

the

table,

how

can

we

change?

Right?

Definitely.

And

of

course,

one

of

the

things

that

we're

having

today

is,

you

know,

here

in

the

United

States,

there's

a

lot

of

discussion

of

this

DOGE

operation

with

Elon

Musk

and

Vivek

Ramaswamy.

And

one

of

the

most

talked

about

pieces

of

that

is

getting

rid

of

the

U.S.

department

of

Education.

And

a

lot

of

people

have,

people

have

actually

accosted

Me

in

said,

Dr.

Schein,

how

can

you

be

against

the

US

Department

of

Education?

And

I

said,

because

education

at

its

root

is

local.

It's,

It's

K

through

12.

It's

parents

focusing

and

the

colleges

should

be

self

supporting

between

tuition

and

if

it's

a

state

college,

by

definition

they

have

state

funding.

If

it's

a

private

college,

they

can

apply

for

private

grants,

but

they

don't

have

to

have

a

U.S.

department

of

Education.

The

one

area

where

the

U.S.

department

of

Education

has

become

very

pivotal,

of

course

is

the

student

loan

program.

But

student

loan

program

could

also

be

administered

by

the

U.S.

department,

the

treasury

or

even

the

Department

of

Commerce

because

it's

about

moving

money.

And

there's

a

good

handful

of

people

out

there

thinking

that

student

loan

business

should

not

be

a

federal

business

at

all.

And

so

it

would

be

interesting

to

see

where

it

goes.

But

I

think

the

U.S.

department

of

Education

sadly

has

put

a

lot

of

pieces

into

place

that

have

made

education

overhead

higher

but

have

not

improved

education

itself

and

certainly

not

improved

a

lot

of

people

like

my

myself

as

a

professor.

Well,

Dr.

Shine,

how

did

you

get

from

lawyer

to

professor

to

an

author

and

get

into

the

politics?

Like

when,

when

Mickey

sent

me

this

book,

I

was

like,

oh,

I

got

something

here

that's

different.

So

let's

talk

about

your

books

a

little

bit.

Sure.

For

the

listeners

out

there

that

might

want

to

know

about

these

books.

Well,

actually

I

have

been.

I'm

a

lifelong

conservative

and

when

I

was

in

high

school

I

was

described

as

to

the

right

of

Barry

Goldwater,

who

was

a

very

well

known

conservative

who

ran

against

lyndon

Johnson

in

1964

following

the

assassination

of

JFK.

And

so,

but

I

didn't

see

it

as

political

activity.

Actually

I

was

involved.

Philadelphia

invented

the

walk

block,

the

block

walking

program

and

that

was

run

by

the

local

Democratic

chairman.

When

I

was

in

college

I

lived

out

in

the

community

in

Philadelphia.

I

didn't

live

in

the

dorms

or

right

next

to

campus

and

so

I

got

very

integrated

in

community.

But

back

then

the

difference

between

Republicans

and

Democrats

was

nothing.

So

in

any

event,

by

fast

forward

to

being

an

attorney

and

I

went

from

corporate

to

private

practice.

And

private

practice

involves

generating

your

own

business.

So

many

of

us

do

run

for

office,

especially

if

we

have

any

political

interest.

And

so

I

did

run

for

office

on

the

Republican

state

Rep

ticket.

I

was

in

the

general

election

in

1992

and

actually

my

kids

block

walked

with

me

and

stuff

like

that.

So

we

really

got

out

and

did

the

old

fashioned

thing

and

going

door

to

door

and

talking

to

people

and

all

that.

So

it

was

a

tough

experience.

I

learned

a

dramatic

amount

about

politics

and

the

kids

learned

a

lot

about

politics

too.

None

of

them

are

involved

in

politics,

but

I

had

done

well

in

the

election.

I

didn't

get

elected,

but

I

did

well.

So

four

years

later

I

was

recruited

to

run

again

by

the

party.

Came

out,

the

local

Republican

Party

came

out,

said,

hey,

you

know,

would

you

be

a

candidate

for

this

position?

And

I

reluctantly

agreed

to

that.

And

it

was

a

very

negative

experience

for

a

variety

of

reasons

I

won't

get

into,

but

in

any

event,

I

did

lose

two

consecutive

elections

then.

And

I

said,

you

know

what,

I've

got

this

figured

out.

But

my

campaign

manager

who

managed

92

and

96,

was

so

frustrated,

he

totally

left

politics

because

of

the

experience

that

he

had

working

with

my

campaign.

So

in

any

event,

I

had

a

unique

experience.

I

had

a

long

term

relationship

with

a

young

lady

who

was

a

staffer

for

Congressman

Bill

Archer.

And

it

was

a

very

timely

period

because

you

may

recall

that

during

the

Bill

Clinton

administration

that

the

election

in

November

of

1994

was

a

Republican

sweep,

which

is

one

of

the

things

that

reshaped

the

Bill

Clinton

administration

was

having

to

deal

with

Republican

Senate

and

Congress.

And

so

anyway,

Congressman

Archer

became

chairman

of

Ways

and

Means,

which

is

an

extremely

powerful

position.

And

my

lady

friend

was

a

staffer

for

him.

And.

And

in

1999

we

got

to

move

to

Washington

D.C.

from

Houston

and

she

was

there

and

I

had

no

official

position.

But

do

you

remember

the

cliche

being

a

fly

on

the

wall?

Yes,

I

was

the

ultimate

fly

on

the

wall

because

I

got

to

go

to

all

of

these

incredible

things.

I

was

feted

by

lobbyists

and

all

sorts

of

things.

So

I

got

to

really

see

in

a

unique

way

how

Washington

worked

on

a

day

to

day

basis.

And

it

really

shaped

my

thinking.

Now

it

took

a

long

time

to

get

from

there

to

two

books

on

the

subject.

And

I'm

very

serious

about

my

writing.

And

so

the

concept

for

decline

of

America,

100

years

of

leadership

Failures

really

came

about

in

the

early

2000s,

but

it

took

me

to

2015

to

write

the

book

and

it

took

four

years

to

write

the

book

and

a

year

in

post

after

it

was

accepted

by

the

publisher,

but

before

it

went

out

on

the

market.

So

that

was

the

book

that

came

out

in

2018.

And

that

was

a

great

learning

experience

by

itself.

By

the

way,

in

terms

of

working

with

a

publisher,

people

don't

know

what's

behind

the

scenes.

I

learned

a

lot.

You

know,

you

be

an

attorney

and

a

business

person,

you

still

don't

know

a

lot

about

a

lot

of

things.

So

anyway,

I

got

through

that

and

I.

The

book

was

very

well

received.

It's

in

libraries,

it's

gotten

some

interesting.

It's

still

being

sold.

I

got

a

royalty

notice

the

other

day.

I

think

they

owe

me

50

bucks

or

something,

but

they

didn't

send

me

a

check.

They

just

said,

oh,

yeah,

we

owe

you

another

50

bucks.

But

it's

been

kind

of

interesting.

But

that

really

helped.

The

combination

of

a

political

interest

over

a

lifetime,

the

opportunity

to

see

Washington

D.C.

very,

very

close

up,

and

then

having

by

going

in

to

get

my

PhD,

which

I

did

after

Washington

D.C.

down

at

the

University

of

Virginia,

gave

me

the

research

skills

and

the

things

that

I

needed

to

be

a

professional

writer.

So

that's

one

of

parts

of

the

way

that

it

drove

me

to

do

my

dissertation,

by

the

way,

was

published

by

a

company

out

of

Germany.

And

then,

of

course,

I

have

the

two

other

books

that

we

promote.

And

then

the

second

book

came

out

of

my

political

observations

that

we

must

have

term

limits

in

America.

We

have

got

people

who

have

been

in

Washington,

and

this

is

a

bipartisan

observation,

whether

you're

Mitch

McConnell

or

Nancy

Pelosi

or

Joe

Biden

or

Chuck

Grassley,

who

mentioned

two

of

each

party.

These

people

have

been

in

Washington

too

long.

They

are

disconnected

from

America.

One

of

the

things

that

I

observed

being

in

Washington

is

that

their

justification

for

a

lot

of

things

is,

oh,

it's

terribly

expensive

to

live

in

D.C.

and

I

have

to

have

a

home

in

D.C.

and

I

have

to

have

a

home

in

Houston

or

Wyoming

or

wherever

I

live.

And

the

answer

is,

no,

you

don't.

And

what

I'd

like

to

do

is

to

cut

their

salaries,

which

I

think

is

coming,

by

the

way.

And

I'd

like

to

say

you

can

stay

in

a

dormitory.

We'll

have

a

dormitory.

We'll

take

over

a

couple

unused

hotels

in

Washington.

We'll

turn

them

into

dormitories.

You

can

have

roommates,

and

you

belong

in

your

district.

You

need

to

report

to

those

people.

And

for

four

years

or

six

years,

whatever

people

vote

for.

But

we

must

have

term

limits

because

these

people

will

not

voluntarily.

Once

they

get

to

Washington

and

they

get

that,

they

get

infected

with

Washington

fever,

it's

very

hard

to

get

them

to

give

up

that

power.

It's

not

about

the

money

of

those.

Many

of

them

have

made

amazing

amounts

of

money.

People

often

mention

the

Pelosi

family

and

the

Biden

family

and

McConnell,

Mitch

McConnell,

that

these

people

have

surprising

amounts

of

money,

considering

that

they've

been

on

a

federal

paycheck

with

no

other

visible

means

of

support.

Why

do

they

have

such

vast

amounts

of

money?

So

just

a

question,

but

in

any

event,

I

think.

But

that's

what

drove

it.

But

my

idea

of

the

book,

the

second

book,

Bad

Deal

for

America,

it's

based

on

playing

cards.

So

there's

26

Republicans

and

26

Democrats.

Again,

it's

a

bipartisan

book

and

we

use

exactly

quotes

things

that

these

folks

actually

said.

And

it's

designed.

When

you

read

this

stuff,

you're

like,

this

person

actually

said

this

and

in

fact

he's

now

deceased.

But

there

was

a

congressman

in

California

who

happened

to

be

a

Democrat

and

he

said

some

things

that

were

so

offensive

that

we

didn't

put

them

in

the

book

because

we

didn't

want

the

book

to

get

banned.

But

I

mean.

And

again,

I'm

not

going

to

share

them

on

the

air

tonight,

but

I

mean,

it's

like,

what

on

earth

were

we

paying

these

people

for?

What

type

of

ethical

relationship

do

these

people

have

to

say

such

incredibly

stupid

things?

And

so

it's

designed

to

be

kind

of

a

tongue

in

cheek

humor,

but

to

make

the

point.

And

we

tell

the

people

on

each

of

the

politicians

what

party

they

were

and

how

many

years

they

had

been

in

Washington.

Now,

some

of

them

are

relatively

young.

I

think

we

had

AOC

or

a

couple

of

the

fairly

new

folks

in

the

book.

But

most

of

the

people

in

the

book

have

been

in

Washington

a

very

long

time.

And

frankly,

it's

time

to

sweep

up

and

get

some

new

blood

in

there.

But

not

new

blood

that

then

occupies

for

another

25

or

30

years

is

let,

let's

have

some

turnover

there.

And

Ms.

Liz,

you

know,

you

guys

up

in

Canada

could

do

the

same

thing,

right?

Yeah,

we

got

our

own,

our

own

little

mess

going

on

over

here

in

Canada.

That's

what

we're

hearing.

I

understand

the

big

dude

was

down

in

Florida

kissing

the

ring.

Oh,

yeah,

he

was

kissing.

All

right.

Well,

let's

just

say

he

was

kissing

the

ring.

Okay.

Yeah,

yeah.

Dr.

Shine,

I

also

found

that

you

did

some

work

with

Texas

Against

Public

Smoking

and

then

the

group

Against

Public

Smoke.

Tell

us

a

little

bit

about

that.

Because

when

I

found

that,

I

was

like,

oh,

what

is

this?

Well,

first

of

all,

it's

time

related.

So

when

I

was

first

of

all,

my

mom

was

a

lifetime

non

smoker,

vehemently

against

smoking,

which

certainly

influenced

me.

My

dad,

actually,

my

dad

joined

the

military

the

first

time

he

could,

which

was

1946,

so

right

after

World

War

II.

And

he

began

smoking

in

the

military,

which

was

extremely

common

back

then.

In

fact,

cigarettes

were

almost

free.

Not

free,

but

pretty

close.

And

so

he

was

a

smoker

and

then

he

quit

smoking

around

1954,

55,

which

is

before

the

Surgeon

General's

report.

And

he

did

it

for

financial

reasons,

which

I

find

hilarious

because

the

cigarettes

were

so

Cheap.

But

I

remember

he

bought

a

beautiful

lamp,

I

think

it

was

imported

from

Switzerland

or

someplace,

and

put

it

in

the

living

room

and

said,

this

is

what

I

bought

with

my

savings

from

having

stopped

smoking,

which

I

thought

was

a

very

thing.

The

other

thing

is

that

having

smoked

for

about

eight

or

nine

years,

he

was

cold

turkey.

He

just

said

one

day,

I'm

not

going

to

keep

burning

money,

I'm

going

to

do

that.

So

that

had

a

positive

influence

on

me

of

course

as

well.

But

in

any

event,

fast

forward

to

get

to

law

school,

which

is

Years

later,

in

mid-1970s,

late

1970s

is.

Smoking

in

public

was

a

major

irritation

to

me.

And

I

used

to

fly

in

airplanes

where

they

would

have

smokers

sitting

in

a

few

rows

and

then

non

smokers.

And

it

was

ludicrous

because

you

cannot

smoke

in

an

airplane

without

polluting

everybody

on

the

plane.

So

I

was

very

happy

when

we

stopped

having

smoking

on

airplanes.

People

don't.

Most

of

your

listeners

probably

don't

remember

when

people

were

allowed

to

smoke

on

airplanes,

but

people

smoked

in

restaurants,

people

did

all

sorts

of

stuff.

So

in

any

event,

Taps

was,

I

love

that

term.

That's

the

music

that's

played

at

military

funerals.

Taps,

Texans

Against

Public

Smoking.

And

we

were

part

of

an

association

called

Gasp

Gasp

Group

Against

Smoking

in

Public.

And

all

I

can

say

is

we

were

incredibly

successful

and

we

helped

to

put

additional

emphasis

on

the

Surgeon

General's

Report,

which

was

in

1964

when

they

came

out

and

said,

hey,

guess

what?

Smoking

is

really

bad

for

you.

And

that.