Whistles

Tea

time

making

a

difference

one

cup

at

a

time.

Tea

time

making

a

difference,

one

cup

at

a

time.

So

be

sure

to

grab

your

teeth,

grab

a

seat

and

tune

in

to

miss

Liz.

Tea

time

making

a

difference,

one

cup

at

a

time.

Well,

welcome

to

tea

time,

guys.

You

know

what

time

it

is.

It's

storytelling

time

and

words.

And

we

don't

serve

a

beverage

in

this

house.

We

serve

a

different

type

of

tea

in

the

house

of

miss

Liz.

So,

but

before

we

get

started,

we're

going

to

get

you

over

to

Ms.

Liz's

YouTube

channel.

Channel.

It's

called

Ms.

Liz's

Tea

Times.

You

really

easy

to

find.

You'll

find

over

400

different

interviews

on

that,

on

that

channel

and

you

can

share,

replay,

watch

at

your

own

time.

You

can

watch

them

in

the

morning,

afternoon,

evening

in

your

car,

in

your

home,

at

a

picnic

and

at

an

event.

But

don't

tell

anybody

that

I

told

you

that.

So

tonight

I

have

Kevin

Kristen

in

the

house

and

we're

reversing

the

tables

because

I

was

on

Kevin's

podcast

sad

Times.

So

now

tonight

he's

on

my

podcast

and

we're

going

to

switch

to

tables

and

we're

going

to

do

Ms.

Liz

Styles.

So

tonight's

tea

is

truth,

kindness,

empathy,

empathy,

humor,

advocacy

and

reading.

So

those

six

words,

we're

going

to

be

playing

with

those

words

a

lot

tonight.

So

before

we

get

started,

we're

going

to

get

you

to

grab

a

tea,

grab

a

juice,

grab

a

coffee,

whatever

you'd

like.

You

do

not

have

to

drink

tea

to

sit

and

have

tea

with

Ms.

Liz.

So

let's

do

the

disclaimer

and

some

bio

and

then

we're

going

to

get

Kevin

in

here,

we're

going

to

spill

some

tea

and

we're

going

to

have

some

fun

tonight.

Disclaimer

for

Ms.

Liz's

Tea

Time

Live

Show.

Ms.

Liz

myself

is

going

live

using

Stream

Yard.

Before

leaving

a

comment,

please

grant

stream

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permission

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Please

be

advised

that

the

content

brought

forward

for

any

tea

time

show

hosted

by

myself.

Ms.

Liz

is

always

brought

forward

in

good

faith,

however

may

bring

forth

dialogues

and

opinions

that

are

not

representative

of

my

platform.

The

facts

and

information

are

perceived

to

be

accurate

at

the

giving

time

of

airing.

All

tea

time

guests

and

audience

participants

are

responsible

for

using

their

good

judgment

and

taking

any

action

that

may

relate

to

the

discussion.

The

content

brought

forward

may

include

discussions

for

some

where

they

may

be

emotionally

at

risk.

Significant

to

know

that

the

show

is

engaging

in

discussion

forums

only

to

offer

and

inspire

awareness

and

connection

and

is

not

providing

therapeutical

advice.

If

you

have

any

questions

about

the

disclaimer

or

the

panelist

discussion,

you

may

freely

contact

me,

Ms.

Liz

through

my

email

at

booking

Ms.

Liz

gmail.com

Moving

forward,

should

you

choose

to

voluntarily

participate

in

tonight's

show

in

any

Aspect,

I

myself,

Ms.

Liz,

welcomes

you

and

should

you

decide

that

this

show

is

not

made

for

you

at

this

time,

I

respect

those

wishes

and

we'll

see

you

at

a

later

show

at

a

later

dating

time.

Again,

all

tea

time

shows

are

done

on

Thursday,

3pm

and

7pm

Eastern

Standard

Time.

If

you

see

a

tea

time

on

Monday,

Tuesday,

Wednesday

and

Friday.

Now

it's

a

rescheduled

tea

time,

special

tea

time

or

surprise

tea

time

because

I

just

like

to

serve

tea

all

the

time.

So

now

a

little

bit

on

my

guess.

Well,

Chris

Crispin

is

originally

from

Monto,

Monte

Carlo.

I'm

gonna

mount

Monticello,

Illinois.

I'm

gonna

get

him

to

say,

because

I

can't

even

say

it

is

an

actor,

writer,

podcaster,

mental

health

advocate

and

writer

of

short

bios.

In

2017,

Kevin

Rope

produced

and

performed

a

one

man

show

called

Invisible

Now.

The

show

was

about

his

lifelong

struggles

with

anxiety.

His

hope

was

to

share

his

weird

and

frightening

experiences,

poking

fun

at

himself

whenever

possible.

After

leaving

the

corporate

space

to

pursue

his

performing

and

public

speaking,

he

has

also

hosted

a

mental

health

podcast

called

Sad

Times.

Each

week,

Kevin

welcomes

a

guest

generous

guests

who

share

stories

from

their

lives

when

they

were

sad,

upset,

angry

and

angry.

Difficult

stories

are

universal,

but

are

not

universal

told.

The

goal

of

the

podcast

is

to

help

people

feel

less

alone,

both

those

who

listen

and

the

tellers

of

the

story.

As

an

actor,

he's

known

for

his

truthful,

grounded

performance

and

dedication.

He

believes

any

day

that

includes

creativity

is

a

worthwhile

day.

As

a

the

I'm

going

to

get

him

to

say

that

word

because

I

can't

say

it.

It's

my

tongue

again.

Artist,

he

focuses

on

collaborations

and

joy.

He

especially

loves

working

on

pieces

that

challenges

the

way

we

think

and

employs

us

to

learn

into

empathy.

Let

me

get

Kevin

in

here.

Let

me

take

a

sip

of

my

tea

because

yes,

Ms.

Liz

is

drinking

tea.

My

tea.

My

throat's

a

little

itchy

tonight,

so

let

me

get

Kevin

in

here.

Welcome

Kevin.

Hello.

How

are

you

doing?

I'm

doing

okay

except

for

the

name

of

the

town,

the

place

that

you're

born,

and

then

the

third

theatrical.

Theatrical.

I

got

it.

See,

I

theatrical.

You

got

it.

And

the

town

where

I'm

from

is

Monticello.

Monticello.

Oh,

it's

named

after

Monticello

which

is

where

Thomas

Jefferson

lived

way

back

in

the

day.

Well,

look

at

that.

You

know,

I've

been

reading

your

bio

all

week

and

I'm

just

like,

I'm

going

to

be

able

to

do

this.

And

then

I

come

online

and

boop.

My

tongue

just

goes

all

over

the

place.

You.

You

did

fine.

Yeah.

So,

Kevin,

I'm

gonna

take

you

way

back

before

we

even

start

the

tea.

Who

is

Kevin

as

a

little

guy

and

who's

Kevin

now?

Wow,

that's

a

good

question.

So

as

a

little

guy,

I

was

really

quiet.

I

didn't

say

a

lot.

My

sister

did

most

of

the

talking

in

our

household.

I

was

not

really

allowed

to

talk.

I

didn't

even

talk

until

I

was

well

into

being

two.

I

was

really

quiet,

polite,

and

just

listen

to

what

my

mom

said

and

all

that

good

stuff.

And

that

went

on

until

I

was

about

8.

And

then

my

parents

got

divorced

and

then

I

became

a

little

more

vocal,

it's

a

way

to

put

it,

and

became

a

big

old

smart

ass.

And

nowadays

I'm

trying

to

get

back

to

being

a

little

more

quiet

and

listening

to

what

other

people

are

saying

and

not

just

being

the

person

talking

all

the

time,

just

in

general

in

life.

So

I

guess

that's

a

very

Broadway

just,

you

know,

kid

Kevin

now.

Kevin

trying

to

be

quiet

again,

I

guess

is

the

way

to

say

it.

So

start

off

quiet,

get

rebel,

and

then

go

quiet.

That's

right.

Yep.

And

we'll

see.

I

mean,

I'm

still,

I

still

talk

a

lot,

so

I

still

got

a

long

way

to

go

to

get

back

to

the

quiet

front.

But

it's

a

good

thing,

Kevin,

because,

you

know,

without

having

that

voice,

we

wouldn't

be

able

to

do

what

we

do.

Right,

as

podcasters.

That's

right.

I

agree

with

that.

Of

course.

One

of

the

best

things.

And

you

know

this

very

well,

having

done

this

for

5

years,

I

love

hearing

other

people's

stories.

And

you

mentioned

that

in,

in

the

opening.

And

so

a

lot

of

my

podcast

is

just

like

the

listeners

who,

wherever

they

may

be

listening,

I'm

listening

to

the

story

too.

And

I,

I'm

usually,

I'm

generally

enraptured

by

it.

So

yes,

I

do

talk

on

the

podcast,

but

it's

also

really,

it

also

gives

me

a

real

good

chance

to

listen

as

well.

Yeah,

that's

what

I

felt

when

I

was

on

your

podcast.

I.

You

made

me

talk

a

lot.

That's

right.

So,

Kevin,

I.

Kevin,

you

know

what?

Yeah,

you

made

me

talk

a

lot

because

I

listened

back

to

it

and

I

was

like,

whoa,

I

really

did

talk

Didn't

I?

Well,

no,

it

was

good.

I

mean,

you

had

a

great

story

to

tell,

an

amazing

story,

and

I

was

honored

to

have

you

on.

And

as

I

say,

and

I

probably

said

this

to

you

as

we

were

getting

ready

to

do

my

show,

Sad

Times,

I

generally

try

to

get

the

hell

out

of

the

way

and

interject

every

once

in

a

while,

maybe

ask

a

few

questions.

But

my

job

is

to

help

keep

you

telling

your

story,

but

letting

you

tell

it

and

me

not

tell

it

for

you.

So,

Kevin,

I

want

to

talk

about

that

Sad

Times,

because

we

talked

a

little

bit

about

it

in

your

bio.

But

what,

what,

what,

how

did

that

come

about?

Like,

sure,

I.

So

in

my

bio

you

mentioned

I

did

a.

I

did

a

one

man

show

in

Chicago

in

2017

called

Invisible

Now.

And

as

described,

it

really

was

just

a

show

about

all

the

weird

stuff

I've

been

afraid

of.

I

have

obsessive

compulsive

disorder.

And

when

I

was

a

kid,

I

had.

I

was

real

quiet,

but

I

had

these

racing

thoughts

that

really

gave

me

a

lot

of.

It

was

really

difficult

and

I

thought

I

was

the

only

person

who

had

these

thoughts.

I

felt

very

isolated.

I

couldn't

go

talk

to

anybody

about

it,

so

I

just

kind

of

kept

quiet

about

it

and

suffered

in

silence,

etc.

At

some

point

I

learned

that

I

was

not

the

only

person

who

had.

That

had

those

struggles.

And

that

was

a

seminal

day

in

my

life

because

that

was

when

I

knew

I

was

not

alone.

And

mental

health

does

a

lot

of

things,

but

one

of

the

things

mental

health

does

more

than

almost

anything

is

isolate

us.

So

I

did

that

show.

And

then

coming

out

of

that

show,

a

friend

of

mine

asked

me

to

do

the

show

kind

of

online

on

a

Twitch

channel

that

he

was

doing.

I

said,

I

don't,

I

don't

know,

I

don't

really

want

to

do

the

show

again.

And

then

I

came

up

with

this

idea

for

Sad

Times.

And

so

Sad

Times,

what

it

is,

is

a

show

and

where

each

week

we

do

have

a

kind

and

generous

guest

like

yourself

who

come

on

and

tell

their

story

and

we're

not

there

to

solve

it,

we're

not

there

to

diagnose

it,

and

we're

not

there

to

judge

it.

It's

simply

to

allow

the

story

to

be

told

so

that

somebody

somewhere

is

listening

to

that

and

they

hear

something

that

maybe

they've

never

heard

before

or

thought,

oh

my

God,

I

thought

I

was

the

only

one

who

went

through

that.

Or

I

thought

I

was

the

only

one

who

thought

that.

So

Sad

Times

is

really

a

storytelling

podcast.

And

as

I

say

in

my

Bio.

You

know,

we

believe

difficult

stories

are

universal,

but

they're

not

universally

told.

We

all

have

difficult

stories,

but

we

don't

always

talk

about

them.

And

I.

I

believe

if

we

all

talked

a

little

bit

more

about

those

things,

and

then

we'll

build

what

I

call

the

big

empathy

muscle.

I

think

we'll

all

feel

a

little.

A

little

less

alone.

I

like

that.

Big

empathy

muscle.

Yeah.

You

know,

and.

And

I

found

something

when

I.

When

I

did

my

deep

search

on

you

there.

Okay.

And.

And

it.

And

you

have.

Let's.

Let's

not

try

to

fix

it.

Let's

talk

about

it.

Yeah,

that's

right.

You

know,

because

there's

so

many

fixers,

right.

You.

You

say

what

you

live

with,

and

then

they're

like,

well,

let

me

fix

you,

or

let

me

give

you

this

supplement,

or,

let's

put

you

on

this

diet,

or,

you

know,

there's

so

many

pictures

out

there,

but

there's

nobody

actually

listening.

Yeah.

And

a

lot

of

storytelling

is

catharsis.

Excuse

me,

is

catharsis.

And

catharsis

can

be

interrupted

if

you

try

to

solve

it

right

away.

Pardon

me.

And,

you

know,

I'll

be

honest

with

you,

Ms.

Liz.

In

my

real

life,

I

try

to

fix

things

when

maybe

I

should

just

let

them

be

a

little

bit.

And

so

I

try

to

put

that

part

forward

in

the

podcast

to

say,

I'm

not

here

to

fix

it.

I'm

here

to

just

hear

it

and

sneeze.

Apparently.

It'S

the

humor

of

the

tea

time.

That's

right.

It

is.

And

that's

something

else.

You

know,

the

humor.

We

got

to

bring

humor

in,

right.

When

it's

so

heavy,

we

got

to

lighten

it

up

with

a

little

bit

of

joke.

Always.

I

mean,

for

example,

I'm.

I'm

in

Monticello

right

now,

actually,

I

live

in

Chicago,

but

I'm

in

Monticello.

It's

the

Thanksgiving

holiday

here

in

the

States.

And

last

night,

I

was.

I'm

here

at

my

sister's

and

my

nephew.

We

put

on

my

favorite

movie

of

all

time,

which

is

Airplane.

He

had

never

seen

it,

and

he

laughed

his

ass

off

last

night,

and

it

was

great.

And

I

bring

Airplane

up

because

that

movie

makes

more

sense

to

me

than

most

things

I

really

see

or

in

real

life.

I

mean,

it's

just

so

funny.

It's

absurd.

It's

subversive.

It's

just

in

humor,

I

always

say

that

kindness

is

the

only

thing

that

I

understand

to

make

sense

100%

of

the

time.

But

humor

is

almost

100%.

Not

always,

but

almost

there.

Right.

So

humor

should

be

in

my

estimation,

a

daily,

hourly

minute

part

of

our

lives.

Because

it

does,

at

least

for

me,

it

helps

me

take

myself

less

seriously,

and

it

helps

me

understand

the

world

around

me

in

ways

that

I

would

be

bereft

if

I

didn't

have

humor.

Right.

I

always

tell

my

kids,

it's

good

to

laugh

at

yourself

once

in

a

while.

Yes,

yes.

Or

daily.

You

know?

Yeah.

You

know,

you're

by

yourself

and

you're

doing

something,

and

then

you

just

burst

out

laughing

there,

and

then

you're

like,

what

the

heck

am

I

laughing

at?

But

then

it

kind

of

changes

the

mood,

right?

Always.

Yeah.

That's

the

other

thing.

You

can't.

You

can

laugh,

and

then

no

matter

how,

you

know,

pissed

off

you

were,

if

you're

laughing,

you're

not

pissed

off,

at

least

for

that

one

moment.

Right.

And

it'll.

It'll

give

you

just

a

little

perspective.

Whereas

if

you

weren't

laughing

at

something

or

finding

something

humorous,

you

might

not

have

access

to

that.

That

little

piece

of

perspective.

Yeah.

I

think

we

need

more

humor

in

the

world.

Like,

you

know,

like.

Like

you

said

an

hour

a

day.

Come

on.

If.

Watch

a

comedy

or

something

for

an

hour.

You

know,

some.

I

like

to

find

these

little

clips

online

where,

like,

there's

a

little

duck

running

across

the

room

or

something,

and

it's

just

the

way

he

wadd.

Gives

me

a

chuckle,

and

I'm

just

like,

well,

I'm

gonna

share

this

because

I

think

somebody

else

needs

a

chuckle.

Right?

That's

right.

Right.

Yeah.

You

know,

just

silly

things

where

people

will

be

like,

where

the

heck

is

she

going

with

this?

Like,

you

know,

But

I

just

like

to

throw

those

in

once

in

a

while.

So.

Have

you

ever

done

that,

Kevin?

Like,

put

something

online

and

you're

just

like.

Like,

have

a

good

laugh,

guys.

I.

I

wish

that

I

have

more

than

I

had.

I.

As

far

as

memes

or.

Or

short

videos,

I

never

know

where

to

find

those,

as

far

as.

I

guess

I'll

say,

as

far

as

social

media

goes,

years

ago,

I

learned

that

I

did

not

like

to

scroll.

I

would

scroll,

say,

Facebook,

and

I

would

just

find

myself

getting

sadder

and

sadder,

and

I

couldn't

put

a

finger

on

why

it

was.

And

so

now

when

I

go

on

social

media,

you

know,

to

promote

my

show

or

to

support

other

people,

I

don't

scroll

down.

Right.

So

I'm

not.

I.

I

enjoy

when

people

send

me

a

meme,

but

I'm

often

not

finding

memes

to

send

to

other

people.

Oh,

so

we

gotta

send

them

to

Kevin.

Yeah,

send

them

to

me.

I

could

use

them

so,

Kevin,

Kevin,

let's

talk

about

your

tea.

I

want

to

talk

about

the

T

first,

and

then

we're

going

to

go

to

the

E

and

the

A,

because

I

like

the

tea

that

you

gave

me.

Your

tea

you

gave

me

was

truth

and

kindness.

So

tell

me

about

those

words,

you

know,

kind.

I'll

start

with

kindness.

Kindness

is

my

favorite

thing

in

the

world.

I

try

every

day

to

be

kind.

I

do

not

always

succeed,

unfortunately,

but

I

am

human.

I

believe

small

little

bits

of

kindness

to

people

that

you've

known

your

whole

life

or

people

you

met

4

seconds

before

can

really

change

somebody's

day,

week,

month,

year,

life.

I

can

think

off

the

top

of

my

head

a

number

of

times

where

somebody

was

kind

to

me

when

they

did

not

have

to

be.

They

didn't

even

know

me.

And

it

just

changed

my

day.

Life

is

hard

enough

as

it

is,

and

I

believe

that

kindness

is

imperative

to

help

us

all

get

through

this.

Truth.

I

mean,

truth

is

the

ideal,

right?

We

all

want

to

be

true

to

ourselves.

We

want

to

be

true

with

everyone

in

our

lives.

And

I

think

that

if

you

can

be

true

to

yourself,

speaking,

you

know,

be

true

to

yourself,

then

you're

going

to

be

a

better

version

of

yourself

with

everybody

else.

So

just

being

honest

with

yourself

and

being

honest

with

others

and

not

lying

about,

well,

anything

really,

but

not

running

away

from

what

the

truth

of

the

matter

is.

There's

a

quote

by

David

Foster

Wallace,

which

is,

the

truth

will

set

you

free,

but

not

until

it's

done

with

you.

And

that's

true,

but

the

truth

will

set

you

free.

So

I

guess

that's

those.

That's

where

those

two

come

into

play

for

me.

I

like

the

tea,

and

I

like

when

you

guys

switch

it

up,

because

then

it

makes

me

dig

a

little

deeper

Right.

Into

the

tea.

If

you.

Yeah.

You

know,

and

being

true

to

yourself

is

hard.

It's

hard

work,

especially

when

you

live

with

mental

illness.

Right.

And

you're

not

understanding

the

illness

or

the

diagnosis

that

was

given

to

you.

Yeah.

So

when

you.

When

you

were

diagnosed,

Kevin,

did

you

understand

what

it

meant?

No,

I.

I

did.

When

I

was

diagnosed

with

OCD,

I

was

in

my

late

20s,

but

I

had

been

suspecting

that

I

had

it,

or

maybe

some

other

form

of.

By

another

name.

So

when

I

was

told

that

I

had

ocd,

I

was

like,

yeah,

that

makes

sense.

I've

always

inhibited

these

things.

However,

I

think

one

thing

that's

important

to

note

about

OCD

is

it's

not

just.

Maybe

the

popular

media

perception

of

it

is,

oh,

I've

got

everything

in

perfect

order.

And

I

wash

my

hands

700

times

a

day

or

whatever

it

may

be.

That's

just.

It's

about.

For

me.

I

talked

about

earlier

when

I

was

a

kid,

and

I'd

have

these

racing

thoughts.

I

would

ruminate,

and

I

would

obsess

these

thoughts

over

and

over

and

over

again,

as

if

these

thinking

about

it

was

going

to

solve

whatever

problem

I

had.

Well,

that

obsessive

thinking

leads

to

compulsive

behaviors.

I

have,

like,

I

count

my

steps.

I

have

to

touch

doors

certain

ways.

You

know,

just

dumb

things

that

have

been

so

ingrained

in

me

for

so

long

that

if

I

don't

do

them,

I

feel

that

anxiety.

And

that's

why

the

compulsions

are

not

great

for

you,

because,

yes,

they

tamp

down

that

feeling

of

anxiety

in

the

moment,

but

that

anxiety

is

not

going

away.

You're

just

pushing

off

the

inevitable.

Right.

So

we

have

a

question

here

for

you,

Kevin.

Sure.

Living

with

ocd,

how

do

you

feel

the

movies

portray

that?

That's

a

wonderful

question.

I

will

say

that

when

I

was

in

high

school,

a

movie

called

as

Good

as

It

Gets

came

out.

Jack

Nicholson,

Helen

Hunt.

Jack

Nicholson

plays

somebody

with

severe

ocd.

And,

well,

I

did

not.

Oh,

isn't

it

a

great

movie?

Well,

I

did

not

share

a

lot

of

his

compulsions.

I

saw

that

movie.

I

was

15

years

old,

and

I

saw

that

movie,

and

I

cried

after

it

because

I

saw.

I.

I

felt

a

little

less

alone,

I

guess.

I

was

like,

I

get

where

he's

coming

from.

You

know,

I

know

there's

a

show

called

Monk,

which

I've

never

really

actually

watched,

which

is

about

a

detective

played

by

Tony

Shalhoub,

who

has

obsessive

compulsive

disorder.

So

the

little

I've

seen,

I

think.

I

think

they

do

a

good

job.

I

think

the

joke

I

always

like

to

make,

this

isn't

really

to

the

question,

but

people

are

always

like,

oh,

I'm

so

OCD

about

my

dishes,

or

I'm

so

OCD

about

this.

I

always

like

to

say,

well,

I'm

not

OCD

about

folders.

I'm

OCD

about

life,

like,

all

of

it.

You

know?

So

I.

I

think

as

long

as

in

the

presentation

of

somebody

with

ocd,

it's

still

like

any

other

story,

presents

a

complete

character,

and

this

is

just

one

part

of

it.

I

think

that's

the

most

important,

important

thing.

I

think

that's

the

biggest

struggle,

right,

with

mental

illness,

is

we

talk

about

it,

we

speak

about

it,

we

share

our

stories,

but

we

don't

understand

a

diagnosis.

Right.

And

then

movies.

Movies

come

along,

and

then

they

make

these

movies

and

they

portray

us

to

be

evil

like

I

live

with

did.

And

you

watch

the

movie.

I

couldn't

even

watch

the

movie

because

it

was

making

me

look

like

I'm

a

monster.

And

I'm

just

like,

that's

not

who

I

am.

Yeah.

You

know,

so,

you

know,

a

lot

of

movies

are

portrayed

to

the

extreme.

Yeah,

that's.

That's

true.

Or

they

want

to

focus

on

just

the

negative

parts

or

the.

The

juicy,

salacious

parts

of

it.

Right.

When

to

your

point,

I

mean,

living

with

mental

illness

is

living

with

mental

illness.

It's.

It's

not

that

fancy.

It's.

It's

pretty

damn

in

the

trenches,

as

it

were.

So

doing

the

podcast

on

Sad

Times,

Kevin,

have

you.

Have

you

seen

different

diagnosis

that

you've

never

heard

of?

That's

a

good

question.

I

think

that.

Well,

tell

me

what

DID

stands

for

again,

please.

And

disassociation

disorder.

I

have.

Did

I

have

bpd

and

I

have

conversion

disorder.

So

I

do

recall.

The

reason

I

asked

you

that

is

I

recall

when

we

did

our

prep

call

ahead

of

you

coming

on

the

show,

you

told

me

a

few

of

those

things,

and

I

had

not

heard

of

those

at

the

time.

I

mean,

they

made

sense

to

me

as

you

explained

them

to

me.

In

general,

I

don't

always

hear

somebody's

diagnosis

on

the

show,

but

I

do.

What

I

do

hear

are

incredible,

incredible

stories

of

anything

you

could

imagine.

Things.

I

never

thought

I

would

ever

talk

to

somebody

who's

gone

through

A,

B,

C

or

D,

whatever

it

may

be.

So

I

always

learn

something

new

from

this

because

I

do

believe

stories

are

so

imperative.

Another

thing

I

say

is

stories

are

the

great

healing

currency

of

humankind.

The

more

we

hear,

the

more

we

heal.

And

I

believe

we're

all

just

a

collection

of

stories.

And

so

hearing

a

different

story

each

week

from

a

brave

and

generous

person

always

teaches

me

something

about

obviously

the

world

around

me,

but

also

about

myself.

We

have

another

question

here

for

you,

Kevin.

Do

you

think

storytelling

is

a

new

way

of

healing?

Yes,

absolutely.

And

I.

I

don't

even

know

if

I

would

call

it

a

new

way.

I

think,

think

about,

like,

one

of

my

favorite

thing

to

do

probably

is

read.

I

read

because

it

helps

me

understand

myself.

It

helps

me

understand

those

around

me.

The

world

around

me,

as

I

keep

saying,

and

I

think

think

about

religion,

is.

Is

a

set

of

stories.

Reading,

of

course,

stories,

films,

television,

now

podcasts,

we're

always

going

to

stories

in

order

to

understand

ourselves

and

everyone

else

better.

So

I

think

that

storytelling

is

more

prevalent

than

maybe

with.

With,

obviously

with

the

Internet

and

With

the.

The

ability

for

so

many

people

like

yourself

to

go

out

and

share

their

stories.

But

I.

I

do

believe

stories

going

back

all

the

way

back

to

Homer,

you

know,

the

Iliad,

the

Odyssey,

these

are

just

stories

that

are

helping

us.

We're

understanding

from

that.

We're

getting

moral

lessons

from

them,

whatever.

So

I

would

say

that

there

are

new

ways

that

storytelling

is.

Is

helpful,

but

I

think

it's

always

been

there

for.

For

humans.

Well,

I

think

as

a

podcaster,

right.

We

hear

so

many

different

stories,

right.

And

so

many

different

avenues

and

paths.

And

like.

And

like

you.

Like

you

said,

when

someone

tells

a

story,

you

would

have

never

thought

that

they

would

have,

you

know,

done

that

or

gone

that

way.

Right.

Or

I've

spoken

with

so

many

people

who

tell

me

stories

about

things

where

I

hear

them

and

I

hear

the

immense

challenge,

the

pain,

everything

they

went

through,

and

then

I

see

them

come

out

on

the

other

side,

but

they

have

come

out

on

the

other

side

a

better,

stronger

person.

And

just

hearing

somebody's

difficult

story

helps

us

understand

our

difficult

stories

more.

So

again,

it.

You

hear

it

all

the

time.

You

hear

these

stories,

podcasting,

and

it's

a

gift

because

it's.

It's

helping

you

see

perspective

on

yourself

and

everyone

else.

Well,

it

goes

right

back

to

the

beginning,

right

where

you

said,

I

just

lost

my

framework

thought

there

for

a

second.

It

was

right

there.

Boom,

it's

gone.

It'll

come

back.

Yeah,

until

it.

Until

it

comes

back.

Let's

go

to

your

next

letter,

the

letter

E,

Kevin,

and

let's

do

empathy

and

humor.

We

talked

a

little

bit

about

this

a

few

minutes

ago,

but

let's

get

deeper

into

this.

Empathy

and

humor.

Yeah,

empathy.

If

we

are

empathetic

to

our

fellow

humans

or

empathetic

to

any

living

thing,

we

are

going

to

probably

be

kinder.

And

we're

gonna.

If

we're.

If

we

allow

ourselves

to

be

empathetic

with

people,

we're

gonna

understand

them

better.

And

by

understanding

people

better,

you're

gonna

judge

them

less,

and

you're

going

to

be

more

accepting.

Right?

So

I

think

the

more

empathetic

we

can

be

as

people,

I

think

the

happier

we'll

be

in

the.

And

the

better

off

we

all

will

be.

Humor,

as

we

just

talked

about,

humor

makes

a

lot

of

sense

to

me.

Humor

is

really

often

humorous.

Just

some.

Somebody

says

something

that

you're

not

expecting,

and

it

surprises

you

and

you

just

laugh,

and

it's.

It's

a.

It's

a

nice.

Humor

is

just

a

little

jolt

over

and

over

and

over

again

to

kind

of

remind

you,

keep

you

on

your

toes,

things

of

that

nature.

But

it

also,

as

we

were

saying,

helps

you

not

take

yourself

so

seriously.

Especially

for

me,

when

I

go

into,

really,

when

I'm

really

anxious

or

I'm

having

some

really

bad

anxiety,

it

is

a

huge

step

for

me

if

I'm

able

to

laugh

at

it,

because

then

I

can

just

take

a

step

back

from

it

and

it

robs

it

of

its

power.

So,

Kevin,

what

tools

do

you

use

to

bring

your

humor

out?

What

tools?

What

tools

do

I

use?

So

I

would

say

you

play

the

spoons.

Do

you

giggle?

Do

you?

Oh,

oh,

I

don't

play

the

spoons,

I'll

tell

you

that

much.

I

did

play

the

tuba

once

upon

a

time.

I,

I,

look,

a

lot

of

my

humor

can

be

kind

of

considered

dark

at

times.

Oh,

dark,

yeah.

Yeah.

Because,

you

know,

you

could

either

be

in

a

lot

of

pain

or

you

could

laugh

at

that

pain

or,

or

pinpoint

to

somebody

else

the

absurdity

that

this

is

a

painful

thing.

So

I

don't

know

if

that's

answering

your

question

or

not,

but

I.

The

tool

of

humor

I

use

the

most

is

for

the

things

I'm

the

most

afraid

of.

Oh,

Death,

loss

of

love,

Things

of

that

nature

I

like,

I

like

to

rob

those

of

their

power

as

well

by,

by

making

fun

of

them,

for

lack

of

a

better

term.

Well,

you,

you

really

went

dark,

didn't

you?

Yeah,

yeah.

The

lights

going

out.

Bye.

Bye.

And

the

tea

just

spills.

That's

right.

I,

I,

for

the

life

of

me,

I

cannot

remember

what

I

wanted

to

ask

you.

It

just

went

over

the

head

and

I,

I

guess

it'll

come

back

maybe

at

the

end

of

the

show,

I'm

not

sure.

But

let's

get

into

your

A,

Kevin.

And

your

your

A

is

advocacy

and

reading.

Yeah.

So

advocacy.

I,

I'm

a

mental

health

advocate

for

the

main,

One

of

the

main

reasons

being,

as

I

described

earlier

when

I

was

little

and

I

had

these

racing

thoughts

and

I

couldn't,

didn't

feel

comfortable

talking

to

anybody

about

it.

It

was

just

an

unspoken

thing.

You

didn't

talk

about

it.

And

I

felt

so

alone

and

isolated.

And

so

I.

To

advocate

for

people

who

are

challenged

by

mental

health

challenges

like

myself,

is

to

help

them

feel

less

alone,

but

it's

also

to

destigmatize

it.

And

some

people,

especially

if

they're

in

a

really

bad

place,

they're

not

going

to

be

able

to

advocate

for

themselves.

I

know

I've

been

in

that

place

more

times

than

I

can

admit

where

I

just

could

not.

And

so

when

I'm

able

to

advocate

for

others,

I

know

that

they'll

advocate

for

me

when

I

need

it.

And

it's,

we're

all

helping

lift

each

other

up.

Reading,

Reading

is,

as

I

said,

my

favorite

thing

in

the

world

to

do.

I

like

to

say

that

reading

is

just

a

form

of

listening.

As

you

read,

you're

just

listening

to

something

else.

And

one

of

the

reasons

fiction

is

so

great

is

because

you

get

to

go

inside

of

somebody

else's

head

and

so

you

can

get

an

idea

of

maybe

what

it's

like

for

what

other

people

in

your

life,

who

they

may

do

something.

You're

like,

why,

why

would

you

do

that?

But

if

you

read

and

you

continue

to

hear

these

stories

and

read

you,

you

are

going

to

become

more

empathetic

to

why

people

may

behave

the

way

that

they

do.

It

also

helps

me

feel

a

lot

less

alone.

It

calms

my

brain

down

and

obviously

it

reading

makes

us

all

more

knowledgeable.

And

I

just

think

any

time

spent

reading

is

never

time

wasted.

So

now

I'm

going

to

take

you

down

a

rabbit

hole,

Kevin.

Okay.

Conversations

messed

up.

When

you

hear

those

two

words,

what

comes

to

mind?

Conversations

messed

up.

Yeah.

A

couple

things.

The

first

one

that

I

can

think

of

is

sometimes

you

can

be

in

a

conversation

with

somebody

and

one

person

may

say

something

that

the

other

person

either

takes

offense

to

or

doesn't

really

understand

the

true

meaning

behind

what

it

was

said.

And

that

totally

messes

up

the

conversation.

I

I

It

also

brings

to

mind

that

we

should

be

talking

about

the

messed

up

things

in

our

life

more,

which

goes

back

to

the

advocacy

thing.

I

going

back

to

when

I

said

difficult

stories

are

universal,

but

they're

not

universally

told.

We're

all

having

messed

up

times

in

our

lives,

but

we're

not

talking

about

them.

And

I'm

not

saying

everybody

has

to,

you

know,

spill

all

of

their

tea

all

of

the

time,

but

I

am

saying

to

normalize

some

of

that,

even

if

it's

with

somebody

close

to

you,

a

close

friend,

family

member,

doesn't

have

to

be

out

on

the

street

or

on

social

media.

Even

in

those

instances

where

we

can

be

vulnerable

and

say,

hey,

I

messed

up,

or

this

is

a

messed

up

thing

about

me,

you're

going

to

have

a

richer,

fuller

conversation.

See,

I

take,

I

take

you

down

the

rabbit

hole

and

the

rabbit

finds

you

and

you

figure

it

out.

I

just

kept

chasing

that

rabbit,

man.

Right?

And

that's

the

thing

when

we're

talking

about

mental

illness,

we

have

these

messed

up

conversations

because

people

are

not

understanding.

They're

so

fix

her.

Right?

Like,

let

me

fix

you,

you

know,

and

that's

where

the

messed

up

conversations

come

in

instead

of

just

listening

and

having

that

open

conversation.

Right.

You

know,

and

I

like

rabbit

holes.

I

like

to

go

down

the

rabbit

hole

once

in

a

while

and,

you

know,

see

where

Alice

goes

with

the

little

rabbit

and.

And

all

of

that.

So,

you

know,

sometimes

we

have

these

crazy

tea

parties

with

the

Mad

Hatter,

and

you

just

never

know

what

comes

out

on

the

tea.

Like,

you

know,

sometimes

we

have

to

have

these

holes

in

our

conversations

in

order

to

fill

the

holes.

Does

that

make

sense?

Like

a.

When

you

say

a

hole,

like

maybe

a

silence

or.

What

do

you

mean

by

that?

Okay,

like

a

silence,

right?

Like

when

you

go

into

a

hole,

right.

You're.

Well,

you

could

be

falling

and

screaming

and

yelling,

or

you

could

be.

Oh,

my

God,

where

am

I

going

with

this?

You

know,

like

the

darkness.

Like

when

you're

in

mental

illness

and

you're

in

those

dark

moments,

Right.

Sometimes

it

gets

so

noisy

in

there,

you

just

want

the

silence.

Right.

So

you

just

want

that

hole.

Okay.

Yes,

I

agree

with

that

hole,

man.

It

gets

noisy

as

hell.

And

you're

right.

Sometimes

you,

you

know,

to

fall

down

a

hole

every

once

in

a

while.

As

long

as

you're

okay.

It's.

It's

good

if

it

brings

silence

and

peace.

Absolutely.

So

now

we're

gonna

go

down

another

rabbit

hole.

Oh,

we're

gonna

just

do

rabbit

holes

tonight.

Right.

Okay.

So

being

genuine

is

the

peace

within

us.

How

do

you

feel

about

that?

Being

genuine

is

the

peace

within

us?

Well,

I

think

if

we

are

genuine

to

ourselves,

we're.

We're

more

likely

to

be

at

peace.

I

think

there's

a

lot

of

friction

for

a

lot

of

people

who

maybe

want

to

be

true

to

themselves,

but

for

whatever

reason

don't

feel

they

can.

And

that

leads

to

a

lot

of

resentment,

whether

for

themselves

or

for

others.

So

I

guess

that

that's

what

that

makes

me

think

of.

And

how

do

you

feel

about

people

being

genuine

when

they,

when

they

talk

about

mental

illness

today?

Well,

I

prefer

it.

I

prefer

genuine

always.

And

when

talking

about

mental

illness,

I

don't

think

you're

going

to

get

very

far

in

the

conversation

or

the

connection

if

you're

not

being

genuine

about

whatever

struggles

you

may

or

may

not

have.

Well,

it

goes

right

back

to

the

conversations.

Messed

up,

right?

Yeah,

that's

what.

Well,

there

you

go.

See,

I

take

you

full

circle

into

each

other.

They

just

hit

each

other.

Right.

Like

we

come

full

circle,

you

know?

Yes.

It's

like

when

we

make

a

mess

and

life

is

hard

and

mental

illness

gets

hard

and,

you

know,

the

darkness

gets

heavy.

The

Thoughts

get

heavy

and

we

make

a

mess

and

we're

like,

who's

going

to

clean

my

mess?

Who's

going

to

help

me

with

my

mess?

And.

Or

even

further,

am

I

going

to

allow

somebody

to

help

me

with

my

mess?

That's

the

number

one

thing,

right,

Kevin,

is

when

do

we

ask

for

help?

Right?

Yeah.

And

part

of

advocacy

is

saying,

first

and

foremost,

I'm

a

human

being

and

I

need

help

just

like

everybody

else

need

help.

There's,

There's.

I

don't

see

a

lot

of

strength

in

refusing

that

you

need

help.

I,

I

would

say

that's

the

opposite

of

strength.

Now,

when

you

hear

the

word

projection,

what

comes

to

mind

for

you?

Well,

I

first

think

of

movies,

but

projection,

I,

I'm

always

fascinated

by

projection.

Right.

So,

you

know,

the,

the

mental

health

version

of

projection

where,

like,

I

put

all

of

what

I'm

afraid

of

on

somebody

else

and

then.

And

then

call,

you

know,

make

them

be

the

version

of

myself.

I'm

afraid

I

am.

I

think

it's

really

fascinating.

I

think

it's

something

that

happens

to

all

of

us

to

a

degree.

And

this

goes

back

to

reading,

this

goes

back

to

advocacy

and

truth

and

genuinenesses.

Maybe

you

don't

know

it

in

the

exact

moment

that

you're

projecting

onto

somebody,

but,

you

know,

as

you're

reflecting

on

something

that

may

have

happened

in

your

life,

to

say,

hey,

you

know

what?

I

was

projecting

on

that

person,

and

that

person

didn't

deserve

that.

And

actually

that

was

more

about

me

than

anything.

So

I

guess

I'll

say

projection

is

common,

but

it's

also

an

opportunity

to

understand

ourselves

and

everyone

else

better.

Do

you

think

projection

is

a

form

of

reflection?

I

think

it's.

No,

I

would

say

it's

the

opposite

of

a

form

of

reflection.

It's.

It's

not

wanting

to

see

something,

or

the

only

way

you

can

see

it

is

if

you

put

it

on

somebody

else,

but

not

within

yourself.

And

so

we'll

say

that

person,

you

know,

like,

for

me,

right

now,

I'd

be

like,

that

person's

balding.

Like,

no,

Kevin,

you're

balding.

Okay,

so

that

type

of

thing.

Right.

So

if

you

could

give

me

three

words

to

describe

your

mood

right

now.

What

three

words

would

you

give

me?

Reflect.

Reflective.

Actually

calm,

hopeful.

Well,

that's

good

to

know

since

you

have

allergies

of

Ms.

Liz,

right?

Yeah.

Apparently

the

coffee.

It's

the

tea.

I'm

telling

you,

it's

the

tea.

I

know,

I

know.

The

sparkling

water,

too.

Well,

there

you

go.

It's

the

sparkles

in

the

water

that.

Helps

my

Throat

feels

good.

So,

Kevin,

I

want

to

get

into

the

acting.

What

got

you

into

acting?

I

like

to

be

looked

at.

I

guess

it's

the

good.

You

know,

when

I

was

like

three

years

old,

I

would

do

impressions.

I

mean

they

weren't

any

good,

but

you

know,

my,

everybody

humored

me.

And

then

When

I

was

4,

I

was

in

my

first

show.

I

was

in

a

show

at

church

and

then

from

first

grade

on

I

was

in

shows.

I

always

enjoyed

it.

And

I

realized

this

past

summer

when

I

was

doing

some

shows

that

one

of

the

few

places

on

earth

where

I'm

not

anxious

is

when

I'm

on

stage.

I

don't,

I,

I

feel

pretty

comfortable

up

there.

I,

I

don't

know

if

I

can

articulate

why.

It

just

feel.

I

feel

safe

and

comfortable

up

there.

And

I

know

that

for

a

lot

of,

maybe

not

a

lot,

but

for

some

people,

like,

are

you

crazy?

I

can't

be

in

front

of

people,

which

I

totally

get.

I,

I

just

don't

have

that

particular

fear.

So

I,

I've

always

enjoyed

performing

in

front

of

people

and

some

of

the

best

people

I've

ever

met,

I've

met

Doing

theater,

doing

shows,

it's,

it's

a

great

bonding

experience

and

it's

just

another

form

of

storytelling,

the

one

that

I

feel

I

can

do

relatively

well.

So

you

said

you've

done

a

couple

of

theaters

shows.

So

is

there

anything

that

anybody

would

know?

No.

Well,

unless

they

were

like.

I

used

to

tour

nationally

here

in

the

States

doing

non

union

theater.

I've

done

some

Shakespeare,

done

a

bunch

of

musicals,

done

a

lot

of

children's

theater

and

then

I've

done,

you

know,

mainstage

stuff

in

a

number

of

places

throughout

the

country.

The

US

that

is.

And

so

no,

probably

not.

I,

I'm

in

some

like,

really,

I

don't

know

why

anybody

would

have

seen

them.

Like

I'm

in

one

feature

length

film,

but

it's

not,

it's

called

Heaven

is

Hell.

I

just

play