June 27, 2025
167: Supercharging Seeds: Zayndu's Revolutionary Cold Plasma Solution - Alberto Campanaro
Vertical Farming PodcastAlberto Campanaro, Head of Science at Zayndu, shares his journey from traditional plant science to innovative agricultural technology. Growing up in northeastern Italy near Venice, he was always fascinated by plants and their remarkable ability to survive without mobility. His early experiences with family, particularly grandparents who gardened and collected mushrooms, sparked his curiosity about plant life and its resilience.
After completing his studies in industrial biotechnology, Campanaro pursued a PhD in the UK, working with agricultural companies like KWS and BASF. His transition to Zayndu came during the pandemic when he was seeking to move from academic research to more applied science. The startup's cold plasma seed treatment technology, which can enhance seed germination and plant growth, intrigued him with its potential environmental impact and innovative approach.
At Zayndu, Campanaro now leads a team of scientists developing precise cold plasma 'recipes' for different plant species and varieties. The technology allows for faster germination, more uniform plant growth, and potentially earlier harvests. Despite moving into a management role, he maintains his passion for plant science by always starting his day in the lab, examining plants and staying connected to the core of agricultural innovation.
Cold plasma seed treatment can enhance seed germination, improve plant growth rates, and potentially increase crop yields by creating customized treatment protocols for different plant varieties
Plants have remarkable adaptive capabilities, surviving extreme conditions without the ability to move by developing complex biological mechanisms to respond to environmental challenges
Transitioning from academic research to startup environments requires embracing uncertainty, seeing potential in early-stage technologies, and being willing to build infrastructure from scratch
Plant science involves developing deep understanding at both molecular and systemic levels, requiring curiosity about how plants survive and thrive in challenging conditions
Controlled environment agriculture allows for more precise agricultural experiments by eliminating external variables like weather and providing consistent growing conditions
Scientists' career paths often evolve from hands-on research to management roles, which requires shifting focus from individual experiments to broader strategic objectives
Innovative agricultural technologies like cold plasma treatments can potentially reduce environmental impact by enabling more efficient and sustainable crop production methods
Maintaining a connection to the fundamental research and regularly examining plants remains crucial even as scientists move into leadership roles
"One thing I always find fascinating is that actually plants cannot move. Throughout the year these organisms have to resist heat waves, floods, different temperatures... And mammals or animals can move around, right? There's no water. Okay, let's go find it. But for plants, they're not allowed to." - Alberto Campanaro
- This quote beautifully captures Alberto's profound fascination with plant biology and highlights the remarkable resilience of plants as stationary organisms. It reveals his deep scientific curiosity and respect for plant survival mechanisms.
"I always remember I was coming from a kind of a rich subgroup with flashy equipment and stuff. And I was there, I thought, you know, this is quite interesting, I can do this. It was also, you know, the technology was sound and at that time, and still I was looking for do something of impact." - Alberto Campanaro
- This quote illustrates Alberto's entrepreneurial spirit and willingness to take risks by joining a startup, emphasizing his desire to create meaningful scientific impact over comfortable laboratory conditions.
"We have arrived to certain level of detail. For example, take spinach that we study quite a lot because there's a lot of request in the market for us for spinach to improve it. And we can see this variation response at the level of varieties. So we are at the moment, in terms of plasma protocol, we have three of them and these three, depending on which variety you're growing, you need to go 1, 2 or 3." - Alberto Campanaro
- This quote demonstrates the precision and complexity of Zayndu's cold plasma seed treatment technology, showing how scientific research can create highly tailored solutions for different plant varieties.
"We do not. If we don't do good things to the plants, we're useless. That's the core of our business, agriculture business." - Alberto Campanaro
- A powerful, concise statement that underscores the fundamental purpose of agricultural technology: serving and improving plant growth. It reveals Alberto's core philosophy about the importance of plants in agricultural innovation.
"Am I doing good enough? Am I doing good enough then? Am I doing good enough for me and am I still really true to myself in this new role that I'm doing lately, it's difficult." - Alberto Campanaro
- This quote provides a vulnerable insight into the personal challenges of leadership, showing Alberto's introspective approach to his professional growth and commitment to maintaining authenticity while managing a team.
Chapter 1: Roots of Curiosity: Alberto's Early Connection to Plants
Alberto shares his childhood memories from northeastern Italy, highlighting his early experiences with nature, family, and the fascination with plants that would later shape his scientific career. He describes growing up near Venice and the Alps, with fond memories of walking in the mountains with his grandparents and observing their gardening practices.
- Early experiences in nature can profoundly influence one's future career path and scientific interests.
- Family interactions with gardening and nature can create lasting memories and spark curiosity about biological systems.
Key Quotes
"One thing I always find fascinating is that actually plants cannot move. Throughout the year these organisms have to resist heat waves, floods, different temperatures... And mammals or animals can move around, right? There's no water. Okay, let's go find it. But for plants, they're not allowed to." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote captures Alberto's fundamental fascination with plants and their remarkable ability to survive without mobility
"I always remember I was going to play of going little for mushroom to pick up. Of course we're kind of playing because none of us were sort of allowed to pick and choose which mushroom to take home and eat because could have been dangerous." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote provides a charming personal anecdote that illustrates his early interactions with nature and learning about plant safety
Chapter 2: Academic Journey: From Biotechnology to Plant Science
Alberto describes his transition from a biotechnology student to a plant scientist, explaining how his desire to see and touch his research led him to choose plants over other biological systems. He shares his academic journey, including his PhD in the UK and early exposure to both academic research and commercial agricultural perspectives.
- Choosing a research path can be driven by personal sensory preferences and desire for tangible results.
- Scientific careers often evolve from pure research to more applied and impactful work over time.
Key Quotes
"I started to work in a lab and luckily I always wanted to do something that I could see and touch. So my degree is in industrial biotechnology and I start, you know, and lot of my colleagues at the time, friends were working with yeast fermenting stuff or bacteria producing medicine. And I decided to go for plants because I said I want to see them, I want to see what happens, I want to touch it." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote illustrates Alberto's unique approach to scientific research, emphasizing a hands-on and tangible connection to his work
"A certain point they started to be more intrigued by the fact that, you know, I don't want to waste 10 years. I want to get an impact now, to generate an impact now. And it's not me really getting my head into a small little floating for decades." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote reveals Alberto's shift from purely academic research to seeking more immediate, practical applications of scientific work
Chapter 3: Startup Adventure: Joining Zayndu's Innovative Mission
Alberto recounts his journey to Zayndu, describing how he was attracted to the startup's innovative cold plasma seed treatment technology. He explains his transition from traditional academic research to a startup environment, highlighting the excitement of building something new and the potential environmental impact of the technology.
- Startup environments offer unique opportunities for scientific innovation and direct impact.
- Environmental sustainability can be a powerful motivator for choosing a career path in technology and agriculture.
Key Quotes
"I always remember I was coming from a kind of a rich subgroup with flashy equipment and stuff. And I was there, I thought, you know, this is quite interesting, I can do this. It was also, you know, the technology was sound and at that time, and still I was looking for do something of impact." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote captures the excitement and potential Alberto saw in the startup, despite the less polished initial environment
"Technology, as I do, is incredibly impactful from environmental perspective. If you think about it, it's just you can just push plants to grow faster and stronger just with electricity. Means that if you can put a couple of solar panels up your roof, you can do it completely without with an impossibly low carbon impact, CO2 impact or whatever." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote highlights the environmental motivation behind Alberto's decision to join Zayndu
Chapter 4: Cold Plasma Revolution: Seed Treatment Technology
Alberto explains Zayndu's cold plasma seed treatment technology in detail, describing how the process works to enhance seed germination, improve plant growth, and potentially increase crop yields. He discusses the nuanced approach of developing specific 'recipes' for different plant varieties and the technology's potential benefits for controlled environment agriculture.
- Cold plasma seed treatment can be precisely tailored to different plant varieties, improving germination and growth.
- The technology has potential to increase agricultural productivity by shortening harvest cycles and improving seed performance.
Key Quotes
"We have arrived to certain level of detail. For example, take spinach that we study quite a lot because there's a lot of request in the market for us for spinach to improve it. And we can see this variation response at the level of varieties. So we are at the moment, in terms of plasma protocol, we have three of them and these three, depending on which variety you're growing, you need to go 1, 2 or 3." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote demonstrates the precision and complexity of Zayndu's cold plasma seed treatment technology
"What we will know is that if you can control the environment, you can keep sowing and harvesting and you harvest cycle diminish. It means that your facility per year can produce more because you may be able to fit an extra cycle by paying the same amount of fixed cost." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote explains the potential economic benefits of the cold plasma seed treatment technology
Chapter 5: From Scientist to Leader: Navigating Career Evolution
Alberto discusses his transition from a hands-on plant scientist to a leadership role, managing a team of researchers. He reflects on the challenges of moving from direct research to a management position, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a connection to the core scientific work and ensuring the success of his team.
- Career progression in science often involves moving from direct research to team management and broader strategic roles.
- Maintaining personal authenticity and connection to core scientific work is crucial during career transitions.
Key Quotes
"What happens that you start to hire more people and then naturally you have to say oh, sorry, I have a meeting. Oh sorry, I have to compile the budget. So you start to stay out to stay out more and a different set of challenges arise." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote illustrates the gradual transition from hands-on research to management responsibilities
"Am I doing good enough? Am I doing good enough then? Am I doing good enough for me and am I still really true to myself in this new role that I'm doing lately, it's difficult." by Alberto Campanaro
- This quote reveals the personal introspection and challenges of professional growth and leadership
Note: This transcript was automatically generated using speech recognition technology. While we will make minor corrections on request, transcriptions do not currently go through a full human review process. We apologize for any errors in the automated transcript.
Start
a
company.
I
never
thought
about
it.
Sounds
exciting.
Then
I
looked
up
scientist
websites
and
they
thought,
oh,
this
looks
quite
cool
to
say
the
least.
Because
at
that
time
we
also
the
website
was
not
as
flashy
as
this
today.
It
was
not
as
full
of
data
as
it
is
today.
It
was
not
clickable
as
it
is
today.
Very
startup.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
Absolutely,
absolutely.
And
they
were
looking
for
a
plant
scientist
and
the
technology
was
really
cool.
I
was
like,
oh,
you
can
do
this
and
that
and
that
and
that.
You
want
to
do
priming
to
make
the
plant
grow
faster.
You
want
to
have
more
yield.
Welcome
to
the
Vertical
Farming
Podcast.
Weekly
conversations
with
fascinating
CEOs,
founders
and
ad
tech
visionaries
join
us
every
week
as
we
dive
deep
into
the
world
of
vertical
farming
with
your
host,
Journey.
Harry
Duran,
Vertical
Farming
podcast
season
12.
If
you
are
a
brand
new
listener
to
the
show,
thank
you
so
much
for
discovering
us.
Maybe
it's
because
of
this
week's
guest
or
someone
recommended
it
to
you.
If
that
happened,
then
please
give
them
a
high
five
and
thank
them
and
hope
you
stick
around
for
future
episodes
and
take
a
listen
and
a
look
at
our
back
catalog.
Everywhere
you
listen
to
your
favorite
podcasts
and
on
YouTube
as
well.
Welcome
to
the
Vertical
Farming
Podcast
family
and
if
you
are
a
regular
listener,
as
always,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
everything
you
do
to
support
this
show.
Share
the
message,
share
episodes,
let
people.
Know
about
what
we're
doing
and
the
stories
we're
sharing
each
and
every
week.
As
always,
it's
the
show
where
we
interview
fascinating
CEOs
and
founders
of
the
leading
vertical
farming
companies
from
around
the
world.
I'm
your
host,
Harry
Duran,
co
founder
of
the
AgTech
Media
Group,
founder
of
Fullcast,
our
full
service
podcast
agency,
and
a
podcaster
since
2014
with
my
first
show,
Podcast
Junkies.
I've
had
the
podcast
bug
for
a
while
now.
In
case
you
missed
the
last
episode,
we
spoke
to
Dima
Chernobylski.
He's
the
co
founder
and
CEO
of
Grow
Director.
We
discussed
his
journey
from
finance
to
ag
and
it's
a
testament
to
the
unexpected
paths
that
can
lead
to
innovation.
We
dove
into
GrowDirector's
evolution
from
cannabis
focused
beginnings
to
their
current
role
in
revolutionizing
greenhouse
automation.
Really
fascinating
discussion
with
Dima
and
I'm
glad
the
team
got
to
connect
with
him
at
GreenTech
a
few
weeks
ago.
This
week
we
have
the
pleasure
of
speaking
with
Alberto
Campanaro.
He
is
the
Head
of
Science
at
Zaindu
and
he
shares
his
journey
from
academia
to
the
world
of
cea.
His
passion
for
plant
science
shines
through
as
he
explains
the
fascinating
complexities
of
plants
and
their
ability
to
adapt
to
extreme
conditions.
We
usually
don't
go
deep
on
plant
science
here,
but
I
thought
it
was
a
great
opportunity,
especially
for
this
audience
to
really
understand
the
importance
of
this
role
in
many
forms.
We
dive
into
the
innovative
cold
plasma
technology
used
by
Zyndu
to
enhance
seed
germination
and
plant
growth
and
Alberto's
enthusiasm
is
contagious
as
he
describes
the
process
of
building
a
startup
from
the
ground
up,
quite
literally
removing
carpets
to
create
a
lab
space.
True
founder
story.
His
insights
into
the
challenges
and
rewards
of
transitioning
from
hands
on
research
to
managing
a
team
of
scientists
offer
valuable
perspective
for
anyone
considering
a
similar
career
path.
This
conversation
is
a
must
listen
for
those
curious
about
cutting
edge
tech
shaping
the
future
of
AG
and
the
teams
behind
them.
Here
are
five
takeaways
I
want
you
to
listen
out
for
1.
Embrace
curiosity
about
plants.
As
Alberto
notes,
plants
ability
to
thrive
is
fascinating.
Cultivate
wonder
about
how
they
adapt
and
survive
in
challenging
environments.
2.
Consider
the
impact
of
your
work.
Alberto
was
drawn
to
Zaindu's
technology
because
of
its
potential
environmental
benefits.
Evaluate
how
your
career
choices
align
with
your
values
and
desired
impact.
3.
Be
open
to
startup
opportunities.
Despite
the
risks,
Alberto
saw
potential
in
Zaindu's
early
stage
tech.
Weigh
the
excitement
and
growth
potential
of
startups
against
the
security
of
established
companies
4.
Develop
adaptable
scientific
skills.
Alberto's
plant
science
background
transferred
well
to
cea.
Focus
on
building
versatile
research
and
analytical
abilities
that
can
apply
across
settings
and
5.
Stay
connected
to
your
work's
core
purpose.
Alberto
still
starts
each
day
examining
plants,
even
in
a
management
role.
Maintain
hands
on
engagement
with
the
fundamental
aspects
of
your
field
to
stay
grounded
and
motivated.
A
very
inspiring
conversation.
I
learned
a
lot
and
I
know
you
will
too.
If
you
find
that
you've
enjoyed
this
episode,
please
share
it
with
a
friend.
It's
one
of
the
best
ways
we
grow
this
show
and
if
you're
feeling
extra
generous
and
you've
been
joining
the
podcast,
please
leave
a
rating
and
a
review@verticalfarmingpodcast.com
love
nothing
would
please
me
more
than
to
read
yours
out
next.
Lots
of
great
takeaways
in
this
episode,
but
just
focus
on
the
conversation.
You
can
always
visit
verticalfarmingpodcast.com
to
read
the
full
show
notes
for
each
episode,
which
includes
all
guest
links
as
well.
Okay,
before
we
get
into
this
undisrupted
conversation
with
Alberto
Campanero,
a
few
words
from
the
amazing
partners
that
continue
to
support
this
show.
Mark
your
calendars
for
the
CEA
Summit
east
in
Danville
Virginia
from
September
9th
through
10th,
2025.
This
two
day
event,
co
hosted
by
Indoor
Icon
and
the
Virginia
Tech
IALR
CEA
Innovation
center
brings
brings
business
and
academia
together
to
help
you
grow
your
business.
Immerse
yourself
in
a
full
lineup
of
research
showcases,
panel
discussions
and
keynotes
featuring
top
experts,
grower
operators
and
other
thought
leaders.
Explore
the
latest
CEA
innovations
from
tabletop
exhibitors
and
enjoy
quality
networking
opportunities
as
well.
Don't
miss
this
unique
opportunity
to
attend
a
conference
at
a
research
facility
where
you
can
get
a
first
hand
look
at
cutting
edge
research
projects
happening
right
now
and
explore
ideas
for
collaboration
with
with
Virginia
Tech
and
IALR
researchers
as
well.
As
always,
we're
grateful
to
the
CEA
Summit
team
for
providing
podcast
listeners
with
an
additional
20%
off
the
standard
passes
with
promo
code
VFP.
Visit
ceasummit.com
for
more
details
and
to
buy
your
ticket
Today,
indoor
farming
is
evolving
fast
and
the
demand
for
fresh,
local
and
sustainable
produce
is
skyrocketing.
But
what's
really
driving
the
industry
forward?
That's
exactly
what
we
uncover
in
the
2025
Indoor
Farming
Market
Research
Report
authored
by
IGRO
News
editor
Sepper
Achard
and
woman
in
CEA
founder
Tea
Otto.
This
deep
dive
into
the
state
of
controlled
environment
agriculture
in
the
US
is
packed
with
the
latest
insights,
market
trends,
investment
outlooks,
game
changing
technologies
and
the
biggest
opportunities
shaping
the
future
of
food
production.
Did
you
know
that
the
US
indoor
farming
market
is
projected
to
hit
$8.6
billion
by
2030?
Or
that
AI
and
automation
are
rapidly
changing
how
we
grow
crops
year
round?
This
report
doesn't
just
highlight
challenges,
it
gives
you
a
roadmap
for
success.
Whether
you're
a
grower,
investor
or
agtech
innovator,
this
is
your
guide
to
staying
ahead.
Download
the
full
report@verticalfarmingpodcast.com
report
don't
just
watch
the
future
of
farming,
be
part
of
it.
That's
verticalfarmingpodcast.com
report
or
click
the
link.
In
the
show
notes
so,
Alberto
Campanaro,
Head
of
Science
at
zyngdu,
thank
you
so
much
for
joining
me
on
the
Vertical
Farming
podcast.
Oh
hi
Ari,
thanks
for
inviting
me.
It's
great
to
be
here.
Finally
left.
So
where
are
you
calling
from?
You
mean
professionally
or
personally?
As
a
human?
Where's
home
for
you
at
the
moment?
I'm
Italian
but
home
is
in
the
UK.
Been
in
the
UK
for
almost
11
years.
I
think
almost
12.
So
kind
of
a
30%
of
my
lifetime
so
far.
Even
more
than
that.
So
by
now
I
would
say
home
is
between
Italy,
UK
splitted
Families
in
Italy.
Rest
of
the
life
is
in
the
uk.
Where.
What
part
of
Italy
did
you
grow
up
in?
Northeast.
Like
a
small
place.
Really,
really
small.
But
the
nice
thing
about
it
is
that
it's
basically
situated
equal
distance
from
the
mountains
and
the
sea
and
we're
like
8
kilometer
far
from
Venice.
So
for
us,
when
I,
yeah,
when
I
was
young
it
was
written
as
well.
Now
it's
pretty
easy
to
just
jump
in
a
car
on
a
train
and
go
to
walk
around
nice
city,
a
nice
city
as
Venice
or
same
way
just
hop
in
a
car
and
then
go
have
a
big
walk,
big
hike.
And
in
the
Alps
which
are
equally
incredible.
And
to
be.
Yeah,
to
be
honest,
I
miss
quite
a
lot
the
mountains.
But
yeah,
it
is
what
it
is.
We
don't
have
high
mountains
in
the
uk.
That's
true.
Yeah.
I
think
that
I
do
remember.
I
think
the
Ben
Nevis
is
the
biggest
one.
But
I
don't
want
to
say
at
what
it
tops
up.
But
it's
not
quite
like
the
Alps.
That's
I'm
quite
sure
about
it.
Nothing
is
quite
like
the
Alps.
Yeah,
for
sure.
What
is
your,
your
favorite
memory
of
growing
up
in
Italy?
Oh,
well,
now
it
has
to
be
family.
Actually
my
favorite
memory
has
to
be
going
and
walking
the
mountains
with
my
grandparents.
Really.
With
my
grandfathers.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
She
want
to
go
down
that
road.
I
have
to
say.
I
have
to
say
that.
Yeah.
You
know,
I've
got
this
memory
of
one
of
my
granddads
taking
me
around.
I.
We
were
going
to
playing
of
going
little
for
mushroom
to
pick
up.
Oh
actually.
Yeah,
yeah.
And
of
course
we're
kind
of
playing
because
none
of
us
were
sort
of
allowed
to
pick
and
choose
which
mushroom
to
take
home
and
eat
because
could
have
been
dangerous.
Of
course.
Deadly.
Yeah,
kind
of.
Yeah.
But
yeah,
that's
one
of
the
memory
I
got
when
I
was
a
really,
really
young
student.
But
yeah,
I
think.
Yeah,
that's
a
big
one
for
me.
Yeah,
of
course.
Is
that
also
your
earliest
connection
with
like
food?
Because
a
lot
of
times
when
I
think
about
earliest
memories
of
food,
it
always
comes
back
to
family
and
especially
growing
up.
I'm
sure
in
a
place
like
Italy
you
think
about
maybe
your
grandparents
kitchen
and
how
that
influenced,
you
know,
your
adulthood.
Yeah.
How
influenced
your
life
and
some
sometimes
your
professional
choices
as
well.
Right,
yeah,
that's,
that's
what
it
is
of
grandparents
cooking
also
my
parents
to
be
honest.
Cause
you
know,
they
always
cooked
a
lot
as
well.
So
let's
don't
forget
about
them
as
well.
Don't
forget
about
them.
But
yeah,
this
for
always
there
memories
of
grandparents
going
out,
picking
some
veggies
out
of
the
garden
and
just
cook
them
on
the
spot.
Yeah,
yeah.
And
now
that
you
make
me
think
about
it,
this
is
actually
quite
interesting
because
now
that
I
think
about
this,
spend
a
lot
of
time
with
both
my
grandparents.
Yeah.
Just
growing
veggies
in
the
backyard,
preparing.
Yeah.
Preparing
the
soil,
planting,
watering
and
all
that.
So,
yeah,
this
is
an
interesting
thing.
I
never
thought
about
it.
I
think.
I
don't
know
what.
Well
done.
That's
what
makes
a
good
host,
I
suppose,
because
I
never
thought
about
this.
To
me,
it's
curious
for
me
because
I
grew
up
in
New
York
and
so
I
grew
up
just
outside
New
York
City
and
then
I
lived
in
New
York
City.
So
I've
always
loved
growing
up
the
energy
of
big
cities.
And
I'm
sure
that's
something
you
experience
now
in
the
UK
as
well.
And
I
kind
of
always
thought
that
was
going
to
be
my
life.
And
then
I
lived
in
LA
as
well
and
I
got
connected
to
the
mountains
there.
So
I
can
relate
to
the
mountains.
I
miss
the
mountains
because
I
live
in
Minnesota
now,
but
I
used
to
go
on
hikes
a
lot
there
and
again,
but
it
was
still
a
city
type
of
environment.
And
now
that
I'm
in
Minnesota,
we
have
a
bigger
yard,
just
under
an
acre
and
we're
planting
a
lot
of
things
in
our
garden.
You
know,
my
partner's
family
grew
up
as
hunters,
so
hunting
deer,
turkey,
you
know,
and
you
don't
really
have
that
connection
unless
it's
either
in
your
family
or
it's
something
you
were
taught
that's
important.
And
so
it's
interesting
now
I
have
more
of
an
appreciation
for
where
food
comes
from
and
it's
not
from
a
supermarket
shelf
as
most
people
think.
Yeah,
I
think
that's
part
of
one
of
the
problems
you
have.
Well,
problems.
Effects
we
have
in
our
society
is
the
disconnection
of
people
from
food.
It
always
make
me
feel.
But
think
about
amazing
book
that
I
read
a
while
ago
from
Michael
Pollard,
I'm
sure
you
know
him,
and
he
was
discussing
this
thing
and
he
said,
oh,
you
know,
I'm
in
his
book.
He
was
trying
to
grow
to
visit
different
kind
of
farms
from
the
industrialized
farms
to
going
to
the
small
regenerative
farms.
And
then
it
was
ending
by
hunting
these
deers
and
cooking
it.
And
I
never
thought
about
that.
For
us,
food
is
just
a
box
of
plastic
on
a
shelves,
actually.
So
we
have
to
do
it
because,
you
know,
we're
a
complex
society
with
a
lot
of
people
and
it
doesn't
make
any
sense.
That
everybody
grown
his
own
food.
But
yeah,
it
just
created
this
connection
there
or
you've
been
lucky
enough
to
experience
the
connection
of
a
lot
of
people.
They
will
never
do,
unfortunately.
Yeah,
yeah.
And
so
what
was
the
driver
for
you
to
go
to
the
uk?
Well,
I
think
I
need
to
answer
this
in.
It's
gonna
take
me
a
lot
of
time.
Depends
how
much
time
you
have.
Yeah,
well,
let's
try.
Basically
what
happened
is
that
here
in
Italy
I
was
last
year
of
university
and
for
us
to
have
a
degree,
you
have
to
start
to
work
in
a
lab,
right?
You
have
to
work
in
a
lab
for
one
year,
make
your
own
experiments,
make
your
own
things,
make
your
own
thing
by
yourself,
write
up
the
piece
that
decide
what
to
do
afterwards.
And
actually
I
was
not
having
before
starting
that
I
was
not
having
any
idea
on
what
I
wanted
to
do
after
or
any
clear
picture,
let's
say.
But
started
to
work
in
a
lab
and
luckily
I
always
wanted
to
do
something
that
I
could
see
and
touch.
So
my
degrees
in
industrial
biotechnology
and
I
start,
you
know,
and
lot
of
my
colleagues
at
the
time,
friends
were
working
with
yeast
fermenting
stuff
or
bacteria
producing
medicine.
And
I
decided
to
go
for
plants
because
I
said
I
want
to
see
them,
I
want
to
see
what
happens,
I
want
to
touch
it.
So
I
want.
Where
did
that
impulse
come
from
that,
that
this
desire
to
work
in
this
field?
I
don't
know,
I
just
felt
like
I
needed
to
work
with
plants.
I
just
felt
like
it's
something
I
wanted
really
to
do.
I
always
been
fascinated
by
plants,
not
only
from
food
production
perspective,
but
also
from
a
research,
basic
research
perspective.
You
know,
one
thing
I
always
find
fascinating
is
that
actually
plants
cannot
move,
right?
It
seems
really
basic
said
like
that
we're
like,
yeah,
of
course
we
can
almost.
Well,
but
if
you
think
about
it,
throughout
the
year
these
organisms
have
to
resist
heat
waves
sluds
different
temperature
in
certain
places.
In
the
planet's
excursion
during
the
year
of
about
50
degrees
Celsius,
all
of
a
sudden,
no
water
for
months,
right?
And
mammals
or
animals
can
move
around,
right?
There's
no
water.
Okay,
let's
go
find
it,
right?
Or
for
us
human,
oh,
it's
really
cold,
let's
go
find
a
cave.
But
for
plants,
they're
not
allowed
to.
They're
not
allowed
to
and
they
have
to
resist
whatever
gets
thrown
at
them.
And
I
always
find
it
extremely
interesting,
something
that,
you
know,
sometimes
we
don't
think
about
it
because
we
just
give
it
to
a
cow,
they
don't
move.
But
I
think
it
is
what
makes
them
so
such
a
complex
Organism
whatever
they
need
to
produce
by
themselves
and
they
just
do
it
from
water,
oxygen,
CO2.
And
I
always
find
it
absolutely
fascinating.
And
I'm
pretty
sure
that
whoever
it
would
ask
the
same
question
to
whoever
comes
from
a
plant
science
background,
it
would
tell
you
pretty
much
the
same
thing.
There's
a
fascination
towards
an
organism
that's
to
be
self
sufficient
without
moving
an
inch.
So
especially
when
you
get
into
the
science
of
it,
I'm
sure
you
can
see
it
at
a
level
that's
most
people
will
never
understand.
Whether
it's
a
molecular
level,
you
know,
what's
happening
at
a
photosynthesis
level.
You
learn
the
basics
when
you're
in
school.
Photosynthesis,
yeah,
I
get
it,
chlorophyll.
But
when
you
start
to
look
at
what's
happening
like
under
the
scenes
and
even
if
you
look
at
trees
for
example,
you
start
to
see
like
the
roots
go
down
almost
as
high
as
the
tree
goes
up
and
how
they
start
to
communicate
and
you
start
learning
about
mushrooms
as
another
living
organism
that
actually
communicates
with
others
below
the
ground.
It
becomes
really
fascinating.
I
can
see
how
that
could
become
like
a
beautiful
rabbit
hole
for
you
just
to.
The
more
you
learn,
the
more
you.
Realize
you
don't
know
it
is
for
so
many
people.
And
then
people
just
get
into,
you
know,
the
more
your
career
progress.
Usually
if
you
stay
in
academia,
you
just
go
down
a
single
little
detail
and
you
just
work
on
it
and
smash
it
and
try
to
entangle
molecular
mechanisms
that
drive
a
single
protein
for
more
for
all
your
career.
Well,
that
goes
also
not
for,
you
know,
for
plant
scientists
or
for
other
kind
of
scientists.
But
I
think,
I
always
think
it's
fascinating.
It's
really
interesting
how
that
can
drive,
how
the
curiosity
for
such
a
little
detail
can
drive
people
for
decades.
Sounds
like
it's
driven
you
for
decades.
And
I
guess
that's
part
of
how
you
ended
up
not
understanding
what
you
were
going
to
do
after
university.
But
something
was
pulling
you
towards
the.
Yeah,
yeah.
I
mean,
yeah.
If
you
want
to
go
back
to
the
question
is
that.
Yeah,
when
I
first
doing
my
thesis
work
was
I
was
lucky
to
have
a
couple
of
really
good
mentors.
And
you
know,
I
just
started
to
be
passionate
about
it
and
have
been
directed.
I
said,
they
told
me,
what
do
you
want
to
do
after
this?
Do
you
want
to
do
a
PhD?
You
seem
pretty,
pretty
competent
and
passionate.
You
want
to
do
a
PhD?
I
said,
yes,
of
course.
Never
thought
about
it
until
they
asked
me
the
question.
And
once
they
asked
me,
I
said
yes,
I
want
to
do
it.
I
said,
you
want
to
be
Here
in
Italy
or
do
you
want
to
go
somewhere
else?
I
said
please
send
me
somewhere
else.
I
just
wanted
to
go
somewhere
else,
see
different
reality,
see
how
it
goes.
And
then
also
you
know,
there's
also
that
part
that
says
sometimes
in
Italy
doing
being
a
side
dissenter
can
be
tough.
And
sometimes
also
you
know,
for
even
simply
for
ego
you
get
attracted
to
go
to
places
where
there
is
more
money,
more
investments.
Just
say
oh
if
I
go
down
there
I
can
afford
to
do
that.
And
that
experiment
they
was
never
been
able
to
do.
Yeah
simple
as
that.
And
I've
been
directed
so
I've
been
quite
lucky
to
apply
to
a
couple
of
them
and
one
one
I
want
it.
And
I
found
a
fantastic
supervisor
in.
And
then
I
moved
to
UK
I
was
in
Durham
I
moved
when
I
was
25
years
old.
Ish
started
my
PhD.
Yeah
well
I
was
an
old
lad
at
that
time
in
in
UK
all
my
colleagues
in
Italy
we
finish
university
later
we
are
older
compare
all
compared
to
the
guys
in
UK.
So
I
was
starting
my
PhD
and
my
colleagues
were
like
two
years
younger
than
me.
Which
okay
at
that
time
feels
a
lot.
Yeah,
yeah
but
yeah
and
also
there
I
started
to
also
be
to
get
in
contact
with
the
commercial
side
of
it
because
while
I
was
in
UK
the
PhD
that
I
won
was
sponsored
by
KWS
who
is
a
huge
multinational
steel
company
and
I
started
to
work
on
serial
on
wheat
specifically
and.
And
that
also
was
a
was
interest
interesting
part
in
my.
My
professional
development
because
I've
been
able
both
to
work
in
academia
because
I
was
doing
my
PhD
in
the
university
but
to
be
exposed
as
well
to.
To
big
corporate
to
the
companies
and
what
it
is
also
to
do
applied
science
and
it's.
They
require.
They
don't
require
different
skill
doing
basic
research
or
more
applied
but
it
depends
on
what
you
like
more.
There's
definitely
two
different
ways
of
approaching
the
problems
and
I
enjoyed
for
a
while
to.
To
work
on
the
edge
of
it.
It
was
really
fun.
But
yeah
I
guess
you
know
I
can
boil
it
down
to
a
couple
of
interesting
point.
There
is
actually
as
we
said
before
in
academia
you
have
your
professor,
your
team
of
guys
that
are
absolutely
obsessed
by
gas
more
liter
protein
for
all
their
career.
And
that's
amazing.
That's
amazing.
But
then
I
was
lucky
as
well
to
have
a
fantastic
company
supervisor
from
kws.
Ed
he's
a
great
guy
and
he
always
told
me
Alberto
always
remember
that
you
guys
look
at
your
protein
and
what
we
look
at
in
here
is
five
things.
Yield
number
one
Number
two
is
yield
number
three
sealed
number
four
is
yield
number
Five
is
yield.
We
don't
care
about
your
proteins
as
long
as
your
protein
gives
me
more
yield.
Right,
yeah.
Was
that
a
bit
of
a
wake
up
call
for
you?
I
think
it
was
something
that
made
me
really
interested
into
the
approach.
Right.
Because
of
course
you
cannot
do
one
without
the
other.
Right.
Because
what
you
do
in
basic
research
now
is
what
can
enable
you
to
have
an
increased
yield
10
years
down
the
line.
Right.
Because
that's
the
reality.
But
a
certain
point
they
started
to
be
more
intrigued
by
the
fact
that,
you
know,
I
don't
want
to
waste
10
years.
I,
I
want
to
get
an
impact
now,
to
generate
an
impact
now.
And
it's
not
me
really
getting
my
head
into
a
small
little
floating
for
decades.
I
just
want
to
see
the
bigger
picture.
I
just
want
to
work
with
plants
out
in
the
field.
I
want
to
do
things
different.
But
of
course,
what
was
your
experience.
Alberto,
with
controlled
environment
agriculture
at
the
time?
Is
it
something
that
you
had
been
aware
of
or
is
it
something
you
started
to
become,
learn
more
about
as
you
started
to
enter
this
field?
I
knew
it
was
existing,
but
before
my
current
role,
I
always
worked
with
open
field
crops.
I
always
worked
on
mother
species
and
or
cereals
out
in
the
field,
wheat,
barley,
that
thing.
So
that
was
all
my
background
because
I
work
with.
Yeah,
with
wheat.
For
kws
then
I've
done
a
postdoc,
I
was
sponsored
by
basf,
working
on
specific
high
tech
function
sites,
also
on
wheat.
So
before
my
job
assigned
you,
I
always
worked
on
open
field
material.
So,
okay,
thousand
tons
of
seeds,
few
times
a
year
and
dozens
and
tons
of
flowers
coming
out
of
it.
So
what
was
the
biggest
shift
for
you
as
you
started
to
apply
all
the
knowledge
you
have
in
open
field
and
all
the
experiences
you
had
in
open
field
and
how
you
ran
experiments
and
all
the
research
you've
done?
What
was
the
shift
for
you
or
what
it
had
to
change
for
you
in
terms
of
your
thought
process
when
you
started
to
look
at
things
from
a
controlled
environment.
It
would
be.
It's
an
easy
answer.
Nothing.
The
way
you
do
things
is
exactly
the
same.
You
just
use
different
plans
in
a
different
setting.
But
what
you
actually
do
from
a
technical
incentive
perspective,
how
you
set
up
trials,
how
you
set
up
tests,
how
you
set
up
experiments,
how
you
analyze
them
is
absolutely
the
same.
There
is
absolutely
no
difference.
And
I
think
that's
what
the
only
thing
you
have
to
relearn
a
bit
is,
yeah,
you
work
with
different
kind
of
plants.
So
you
just
have
to
learn
a
bit
how
they
grow,
how
the
plants
are
supposed
to
look
like,
what's
their
harvest
Cycles,
what's
their
phenotype
like?
But
besides
that,
the
basic
knowledge
and
the
basic
techniques
that
you
acquire
when
you
are
young
scientists
and
then
you're
referring
throughout
your
career,
they
are
the
same,
the
principles
are
the
same.
That's
a
really
interesting
part
about,
about
science
in
general
is
that,
you
know,
I
can
take
one
of
my
data
set
and
give
it
and
it
happened
also
give
it
to
professor
of
Nottingham
University
to
assess
and
these
guys
never
worked
in
environmental
agriculture.
Maybe
if
you
just
only
work
on
model
species
in
basic
science
and
they
can
simply
look
at
it
and
say,
yeah,
it
makes
sense.
So
that's
quite
the
beauty
of
science.
We
all
can
do
it
and
we
can
cross
check
it
with
each
other
and
we
can
all
speak
the
same
language
even
if
we
work,
even
if
you
work
in
a
field
and
I'm
glass
house
and
the
other
guy
is
vertical
farm,
we're
going
to
have
different
challenges.
Namely,
I
don't
know,
maybe
when
you
work
in
broad
daycare,
the
main
challenges
in
setting
up
your
trials
is
always
the
weather.
You
don't.
It's
always
difficult
to
know
when
to
go
out
and
plant
because
maybe
there's
too
much
drought
or
last
immunity
start
to
rain
so
you
have
to
delay
your
planting
and
that
may
impact
the
phenotype
that
you're
looking
at.
But
this
while,
you
know,
actually
now
I
think
about
it
in
controlling
planet
it's
quite,
quite
a
bit
easier
because
we
can
plant
whenever
we
need.
So
you,
I
love
that
you
mentioned
that
there's
not
a
difference
between,
you
know,
the
type
of
research
you
do
within
cea.
Can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
you
got
connected
to
Zyndoo
and
Ralph
and
the
team
and
what
was
it
about
what
they
were
working
on
that
attracted
you
and
interested
you?
Well,
so
at
that
time,
I
think
to
give
you
an
idea
of
the
time
frame,
we
were
going
through
one
of
the
last
lockdowns
here
in
the
uk
and
at
that
time
I
just
wanted,
I
really
wanted
to
change.
I
was
still
a
postdoc
university.
I
wanted
to
change
it
because
I
just
wanted
to
go
out
from
academia
and
go
into
more
applied
research
and
you
know,
I
had
some
offers
here
and
there
from
super
big
companies,
super
multinational.
Oh,
super
multinational
companies.
And
what
I
always
thought
is
if
I
go
there,
just
going
to
be
doing
my
little
experiment
and
then
going
home
in
the
evening
and
just
sort
of
being
part,
being
a
small
part
of
a
big
mechanism
and
nothing
wrong
with
that.
And
then
I
thought,
oh,
well,
I
was
wondering
on
the
or
on
the
Internet
looking
for
jobs,
certain
point
I
got
in
Contact
with
a
recruiter.
And
he
told
me,
hey,
you
know,
I've
got
a
position
in
a
startup
company.
What
do
you
think
about
a
startup
company?
And
then
I
was
like,
start
a
company.
I
never
thought
about
it.
Sounds
exciting.
Then
I
looked
up
Scientus
websites
and
they
thought,
oh,
this
looks
quite
cool
to
say
the
least.
Because
at
that
time
we
also.
The
website
was
not
as
flashy
as
this
today.
It
was
not
as
full
of
data
as
it
is
today.
It
was
not
clickable
as
it
is
today.
Um,
very
startup.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
absolutely,
absolutely.
And
they
were
looking
for
a
plant
scientist
and
the
technology
was
really
cool.
I
was
like,
oh,
you
can
do
this
and
that
and
that
and
that.
You
can.
You
want
to
do
priming,
want
to
make
the
plant
grow
faster,
you
want
to
have
more
yield
and
you
do
it
just
with
electricity.
Okay,
okay,
okay.
Uh,
so
I
just
started
to
know
more.
So
I
called
back
to
the
co,
I
said,
yeah,
yeah,
yeah,
I
mean,
let
me
like,
find
me
an
interview
date.
I
need
to
meet
them.
I
just
started
to
look
it
up
on
the
Internet,
say,
what's
this
thing?
Yeah.
And
turns
out
that,
you
know,
design
technology
is
based
on
code
plasma
seed
treatments.
What
it
does
is
just
you
basically
rearrange
the
molecules
of
the
air
with
plasma
and
just
you
throw
this
chemistry
to
seeds
and
it
does
stuff.
It
makes
plants
grow
faster,
et
cetera.
We
can
talk
about
it
later.
I
started
to
look
it
up
into
the
Internet
and
it
was
something
quite
sound
because
there's.
It
was
a
process
that
has
been
studied
for
like,
I
don't
know,
a
decade
or
something.
I
thought,
oh,
I've
never
seen
this
before.
You
know
when
you
see
this
thing
that
you
look
at
a
website
and
you
think,
oh,
it's
quite
interesting,
but
do
I
believe
it?
It's
quite
interesting.
Do
I
believe
it?
Then
you
look
it
up
on
the
literature
online.
You
know
that
I
would
go
on
the
classic
PubMed
or
on
the
classic
sci
hub.
When
you
don't
get
access
and
you're
broke,
when
you're
a
broke
postdoc
in
your
living
room,
but
don't
tell
anyone.
And
you
find
papers
from
like,
I
don't
know,
a
decade
ago,
but
I
was
even
more
recent
and
doing
experiment
on
this
plasma
seed
treatment.
Well,
I
need
to
know
more.
So
that's
how
I
get
in
contacts.
And
I
had
an
interview
with
Ralph
CEO
and
independently
with
Felipe,
who
is
the
CTO
and
one
of
the
founders.
And
I
just
thought,
oh,
this,
these
guys
are
sound,
really.
And
I
like
the
guys
a
lot
and
they
liked
me
a
lot.
So
they
invited
me
over
for
a
day
to
have
a
look
at
what
they
have
and
what
they
have
on
site.
And
I
can
tell
you
right
now,
it
was
really,
really
startup.
You
know,
it
was
like
four
boys
in
a
shed
kind
of
thing.
Which
made
you
think,
oh,
okay.
I
always
remember
I
was
coming
from
a
kind
of
a
rich
subgroup
with
flashy
equipment
and
stuff.
Yeah.
And
I
was
there,
I
thought,
you
know,
this
is
quite
interesting,
I
can
do
this.
And
it
was
also,
you
know,
technology
was
sound
and
those
at
that
time,
and
still
I
was
looking
for
do
something
of
impact.
And
technology,
as
I
do,
is
incredibly
impactful
from
environmental
perspective.
If
you
think
about
it,
it's
just
you
can
just
push
plants
to
grow
faster
and
stronger
just
with
electricity.
Means
that
if
you
can
put
a
couple
of
solar
panels
up
your
roof,
you
can
do
it
completely
without
with
an
impossibly
low
carbon
impact,
CO2
impact
or
whatever.
And
that
was
extremely
powerful
to
attract
me
to
it.
And
yeah,
and
that's
how
it
all
started.
Ralph
offered
me
a
job
and
I
accepted.
What's
interesting
about
the
story,
Alberto,
is
people
who
are
put
into
the
same
experience
that
you
had.
If
they
saw
the
four
guys
in
the
garage,
you
know,
they
do
one
of
two
things.
They
say,
whoa,
this
is
pure
startup,
very
risky.
Not
for
me.
I
need
my
security.
I
need
to
be
working
at
a
company
that's
more
established.
So
I
think
it
speaks
to
maybe
something
that's
inherent
in
your
nature,
maybe
this
ability
to
try
new
things
or
what
do
you
think
it
was
in
you
that
made
you
decide?
You
see
that,
someone
else
sees
that
and
turns
away
and
goes
in
the
other
direction.
But
you
see
it
and
you
see
potential.
You
can
see
where
this
is
going.
You've
done
your
research,
so
you
know,
the
technology
is
sound.
I'm
curious,
like,
what
your
thought
process
is
there?
I
think
multiple
things.
I
think
first
of
all,
it
was
that
a
technology
like
that,
with
this
potential,
especially
in
terms
of
green
credential,
needs
to
be
supported.
First
thing
for
me
at
the
time
was
that,
yeah,
because
remember
the
year
before,
I
was
working
on
pesticide
and
then
I
was
there,
I
felt
like,
no,
I
need
to
support
this
right
now.
And
then
that's
the
first
part.
Second
part
is
that
the
team
gave
me
a
great
impression.
They
were
really,
really.
I've
been
able
to
feel
both
the
passion
and
technical
knowledge.
And
I
clearly
seen
that
what
was
missing
in
there
and
there
was
someone
who
can
know,
who
knows
how
to
work
complex.
You're
having
these
two
guys,
Ralph
and
Baby
Pedeno,
semiconductors
and
plasma
stuff,
right?
But
they
were
telling
me
they're
pretty
good
guys
and
I
thought,
oh,
I
can
trust
them.
And
then
the
other
side,
the
bad
part
is
that
what
does
security
mean
when
you
can
have
fun?
I
love
that,
honestly,
that
part,
because
maybe
it's
my
personality,
especially
at
that
time.
Our
cycle,
growing
something
from
poor
guys
in
a
shed
to
something
bigger
is
going
to
be
fun.
Establishing
a
plant
lab
from
nothing,
because
it
was
really
nothing.
And
when
I
went
there,
we
built
a
new
plant
biology
lab
from
scratch.
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
From
a
room
that
was
a
meeting
room
before.
And
the
carpets
from
the
floor
with
our
nails,
with
our
fingers
over
the
weekend.
That
classical
kind
of
thing,
right?
Yeah,
Very
startup,
very
exciting.
Oh,
absolutely,
absolutely.
I
remember
my
first
four
weekends
assigned,
you
were
over
the
weekends,
removing
carpet
on
the
floor,
me,
another
couple
of
guys.
And
then
Ralph
up,
our
CEO
was
coming
in
with
donuts
at
half
a
morning
or
something
like
that.
You
know,
that
kind
of
environment.
So
it
was
both
fun
and
interesting
and
exciting,
really.
So
I
think
that
that's
what
attracts
me
to
that.
That's
a
great
story.
So
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
technology
now
that
you've
had
the
experience
and
the
time
of
being
there
and
applying
your
plant
science
background
to
the
cold
plasma
technology.
So
for
folks
that
maybe
aren't
will
obviously
link
back
to
our
interview
with
Ralph.
But
you
know,
I'm
sure
there's
been
developments
since
then.
How
would
you
describe
the
technology
and
the
benefits
for
control
for
growing
in
a
controlled
environment?
Well,
to
do
it
quickly,
as
I
can
tell
you
in
a
second
the
benefit
and
then
we
can
talk
about
how
it
works.
Basically,
our
technology
is
based
on
a
piece
of
cat,
for
the
lack
of
a
better
words
in
which
you
put
seeds
in.
You
press
the
start
button,
you
waste
some
time
and
then
these
seeds
get
primed,
AKA
they
germinate
better.
They
germinate
faster.
Another
important
effect
is
that
they
germinate
together.
Yeah,
you've
diminished
the
variability
in
plant
growth
so
the
plants
grow
together.
So
idea.
When
you
harvest,
you
have
more
product
in
being
specific
in
spec
and
less
out
of
spec.
And
they
just
grow
faster
afterwards.
So
you
can
even
harvest
a
couple
of
days
before
than
you
would
normally
because
of
this
increased
grow
rate,
because
you
have
a
better
start
and
a
increased
core
rate.
So
you
harvest
a
couple
of
days
earlier.
And
what
we
will
know
is
that
if
you
can
control
the
environment,
you
can
keep
sowing
and
harvesting
and
you
harvest
cycle
diminish.
It
means
that
your
facility
per
year
can
produce
more
because
you
may
be
able
to
fit
an
extra
cycle
by
paying
the
same
Amount
of
fixed
cost.
Well,
you
may
need
to
pay
for
to
get
more
seeds
and
all
that.
But
you
get
what
I'm
trying
to
say.
So
that's
one
of
the
big
benefit.
The
other
benefit
that
we've
seen
is
that
another
way
of
our
user
use
the
technology
is
that
you
don't
harvest
earlier.
You
harvest
the
same
sort
of
unrecycle,
but
you
have
a
small
biomass.
That
depends
on
how
on
which
plant
you're
working
with.
And
if
you're
a
vertical
farm
or
greenhouse,
depends
on
what
your
customer
wants
in
terms
of
specification,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
there's
a
sort
of
flexibility
in
it.
So
you
got
basically
a
plant
that
you
supercharged.
And
how
do
you
want
to
use
these
supercharges
at
your
discretion?
And
to
quickly
explain
you
how
we
work
is
we're
basing
basically
what
we
do.
The
interesting
part
is
that
we
can
ignite
plasma
at
room
temperature
and
room
and
normal
pressure
and
sea
level
pressure,
let's
say.
And
that
will
generate
is
a
cocktail
of
reactive
oxygen
and
nitrogen
species.
A
cocktail
that
we
are
able
to
control.
Not
gonna
lie,
it
took
us
a
while,
but
we've
been
able
to
sort
of
control
it.
And
with
that
what
it
does
it
increase
the
seed
permeability.
Right.
That
means
that
when
you
put
the
seeds
out
germination
chamber,
they
absorb
water
damage
faster
for
your
plants
grow
a
bit
faster
and
they
just
sort
of
trigger
to
germinate
and
they're
prepared
for
it.
And
that's
how
it
works.
Exactly.
Also
there
must
be
also
a
lot
of.
There's
a
physiological
cascade
of
what
happens
when
a
the
seeds
are
exposed
to
neurons.
There's
a
physiological
effect.
It's
not
super
well
studied,
but
still
a
lot
that
can
be
done
in
terms
of
basic
research
and
what
happens
to
these
seeds
and
to
these
plants
once
they
get
exposed
to
plasma
products.
And
that's
something
that
would
be
really
interesting
to
research
more
and
do
and
look
at
it
into
detail.
We
need
one
of
those
academics
who
wants
to
do
that
from
the
plant
perspective.
That's
pretty
much
an
actual
what
we
do.
So
what's
been
the
experience
as
you
work
with
this
technology
and
you
start
to
have
interactions
with
your
clients
and
the
people
who
are
using
it
and
are
seeing
success.
You
know,
you.
And
I'm
sure
you
start
to
get
feedback
from
the
field
of
what's
working
and
what's
not.
So
as
the
product
has
been
developing,
what
type
of
feedback
has
been
helpful
for
you
as
a
plant
scientist?
Well,
at
this
stage,
well,
in
the
previous
years
any
kind
of
feedback
was
useful
because
you
know
Technology
in
very
infancy
to
look
at
what
we're
doing
three,
four
years
ago.
It
was
tricky.
It
was
maybe
working
one
day.
Yes.
Two
days
now,
which
is
normal
sort
of
technology
in
its
infancy.
Any
sort
of
feedback
was
useful
from
the.
Hey,
I'm
pressing
the
button,
I'm
hearing
a
strange
noise
to
I'm
planting
the
seeds
and
some
of
them
are
actually
not
germinating.
You
in
fact
killed
all
my
seeds
rather
than
made
them
germinate
better,
which
happens.
Oh
yes,
yes,
yes.
And
you
know,
in
that
regardless
that
we
have
some
of
our
let's
say
user
a
while
ago
were
also
were
exactly
playing
this
game,
were
like,
oh,
let's
see
how
far
we
can
go
before
killing
them.
We
need
to
kill
the
seeds.
Yeah.
You
know,
I've
been
asked
so
many
times,
let's
kill
the
seeds
and
then
let's
dial
down
from
there.
Which
actually
is
really
important
parameter
is
one
of
the
best
way
to
start
an
optimization.
If
you
don't
know
where
to
go,
just
destroy
everything
and
then
walk
backwards
from
that.
Yeah.
Take
it
to
10
and
then
dial
it
down.
Yeah,
and
then
dial
down.
Yeah,
why
not?
It's
a
way
to
do
it.
It's
super
interesting.
But
yeah.
Now
if
you
look
at
from
there
to
what
we've
done
now,
now
we're
more
like,
you
know,
I
might
have
a
good
idea
what
you
should
do.
My
user,
please
make
sure
to
do
exactly
what
I'm
telling,
otherwise
you're
going
to
kill
them.
So,
you
know,
a
lot
of
time
has
passed
and
things
have
changed
a
lot.
Nowadays
we
have,
we've
got
a
loads
of
experience
and
we're
able
to
help
our
customer
in
a
way
much
better
way.
Before
we
were
trialing
the
technology.
Now
we
are
in
the
phase
in
which
we
optimize
it
to
help
our
user
to
get
the
best
that
they
can,
you
know.
Yeah.
Which
is
really
different.
Do
you
see
a
big
difference
in
terms
of
the
different
crops
and
the
type.
Types
of
seeds
and
how
the
cold
plasma
reacts
to
them?
Yes,
extremely.
So
one
part
of
it
is
how
this
is
in
fact
react
and
I
can
tell
you
that
we
have
arrived
to
certain
level
of
detail.
For
example,
take
spinach
for
example
that
we
study
quite
a
lot
because
there's
a
lot
of
request
in
the
market
for
us
for
spinach
to
improve
it.
And
we
can
see
this
variation
response
at
the
level
of
varieties.
Right.
So
we
are
at
the
moment
in
terms
of
plasma
protocol,
for
example,
we
have
three
of
them
and
these
three,
depending
on
which
variety
you're
growing,
you
need
to
go
1,
2
or
3
and
you
know
the
level
of
detail
is
quite
extreme.
Two
years
ago,
three
years
ago,
we
were
talking
about,
oh,
all
the
spinach
gonna
be
treated
the
same
or
the
lettuce
gonna
be
treated
the
same.
Now,
not
anymore.
We
just
go
down
that
level.
So
yeah,
there's
a
variety
response,
not
a
species
response.
Well,
species
was
of
course
there,
but
that's
the
level
of
detail
and
of
course
we
see.
So
it
sounds
like
you
have
a.
It's
almost
like
a
recipe,
a
cold
plasma
recipe
for
each
species
and
variety.
Yeah,
in
fact,
yes.
So
we've
got
a
certain
number
of
variable
that
we
can
tweak
to
generate
the
recipes
for
our
speed
for
our
customer.
Quite
a
few,
I
would
say
quite
a
few.
And
it's
really,
really
important
to
have
this
specific
one
because
one,
if
you
don't
have
the
right
one,
you
just
don't
know,
don't
have
any
benefit
or
you
may
also
go
down
the
road
of
having
problems.
And
two,
it
depends
on
how
long
you
want
to
work
on
optimization.
And
you
can
always
squeeze
more
performance
depending
on
what
you
want.
But
yeah,
we
have
a
lot
of
recipes.
They
are
all
adapted
to
different
species
and
varieties.
And
it's
interesting
because
there
are
some
species
that
require
a
super
intense
plasma,
while
other
other
with
a
medium
plasma,
you
just
kill
them.
So,
yeah,
yeah,
it's
something
that
we
need
to
help
our
user.
We
support
our
users
in
doing
them,
actually.
We
do
them
for
them
really,
because
you
cannot
start
from
scratch,
otherwise
you'll
never
make
it.
You're
going
to
need
five
years
rather
than
one
month,
which
is
all
interesting.
Right?
Yeah.
Alberto,
I'm
curious.
Is
there
a
specific
size
farm
that
or
operation
where
it
would
make
sense
to
engage
with
design
to
technology?
Is
there
a
place
or
a
time
where
maybe
it's
too
soon
for
them
because
maybe
they're
not
big
enough
or
what
have
you
seen
from
your
experience,
like
an
ideal
client
and
a
ideal
time
to
engage
with
design?
So
I
don't
have
the
number
on
my
head
at
the
moment
with
that.
There
definitely
is.
There's
not
a
limit,
an
upper
limit
because,
you
know,
but
there's
definitely
a
lower
limit.
You're
going
first.
You're
going
to
need
to
have
a
farm.
So
with
a
good
starting
point.
But
this
varies
and
I'm
afraid
I
cannot
give
you
that
number
at
the
moment.
I'm
not
prepared
with
it.
Yeah,
it's
just
something
to
think
about.
That's
okay.
I
think
it's.
It's
important.
And
we'll
have
all
the
links
available.
I'm
curious
what,
you
know,
for
people
that
are
not
as
Aware
as
you
know
what
a
plant
scientist
does.
What's
a
typical
day
for
you
look
like?
Well,
typical
day
of
when
I
was
a
plant
scientist
or
when.
Now
that
I
have
to.
I
would
say
now.
He
would
say
now.
Well,
okay,
I'll
try
to
gain
time
while
I
think
about
it
by
saying,
as
an
Italian
idea,
we
start
with
a
good
coffee,
right?
Of
course,
of
course.
Without
it
doesn't
work.
But
an
espresso.
Yeah.
Double.
Eventually
double.
Preferably
eventually
double.
But
you
know,
the
funny
thing
now
is
that
the
first
thing
that
I
do
in
my
day,
even
if
I'm.
It's
a
while
then
now
I
don't
work
anymore
in
the
lab
because
I've
got
my
team
dealing
with
it.
And
the
interesting
thing
is
that
the
first
thing
that
I
do
when
I
go
in
the
office
after
drinking
coffee,
actually.
So
the
second
thing
is
just
call
my
guys
and
say,
hey,
let's
do
a
lab
work.
Let's
go
in
the
lab
and
look
up
plans.
Because
in
the
end
it's
an
old
thing
that
one
of
my
mentors
when
I
was
24
told
me,
first
thing
you
do
when
you
come
to
the
office,
you
look
at
your
plans
and
then
you
open
your
and
then
I.
And
then
I
start.
I've
done
it
so
since
then
and
I
keep
doing
it
and
you
know,
it's
kind
of
interesting
when
you
start
to
do
it
on
the
other
side
when
you
don't
have
to
explain
your
boss
things.
I
can
ask
them
questions,
but
yeah,
the
habits
is
there
still
going
the
lab.
Look
at
the
plants.
Show
me
the
last
experiment,
give
me
some
green,
which
is
also
give
me
a
bit
of
energy
because
the
rest
of
the
day
ends
up
in
spreadsheet
meetings
and
PowerPoint
and
reports
and
grant
application
and
reports
to
the
board
and
talk
with
customer,
talk
with
user
and
problem
solving.
Well,
I
have
to
say
still
my
favorite
part
of
the
day
is
go
in
the
lab
and
look
at
the
plants.
Yeah.
Engaging
with
the
living
organisms.
That's
the
core
of
our
business,
you
know,
agriculture
business.
We
do
not.
If
we
don't
do
good
things
to
the
plants,
we're
useless.
Right.
Yeah.
That's
the
most
important
part
of
it.
It's
not
our
machine
or
it's
what
we
do.
It's
how
what
we
do
impact
the
plants.
The
rest
is
accessory.
Yeah,
for
sure.
Or
at
least
that's
my
opinion.
Yeah,
yeah.
Because
we're
growing
a
garden
here,
like
I
mentioned,
in
my
house,
in
my
yard,
and
it's
a
pretty
decent
sized
garden.
And
my
partner,
she's
more
connected,
you
know,
to
the
trees.
And
the
animals,
the
plants,
she
feeds
the
squirrels.
But
she
makes
it
a
point
to,
you
know,
get
her
coffee
and
walk
around
the
yard
and
see
what
came
up
today,
you
know,
what.
How
the
plants
are
doing.
And
I
think
for
me,
it's
a
shift
from
the
city
guy
mentality
of
like.
For
me,
it's
like,
get
on
the
train,
get
on
the
bus,
get
on
the
subway,
go
to
work,
get
in
the
office.
You
know,
so
I
have
to
slow
down.
And
she's
helping
to
remind
me
that
the
most
important
thing
is
to
kind
of
look
at
what's
changed.
Because
in
24
hours,
you
know,
it's
so
funny
how
things.
Plants,
you
know,
they
just
change
and
different
things
come
up.
And
if
you
start
to
have
those
eyes,
that
awareness
of
how
plants
grow
and,
you
know,
the.
From
seedlings
and
how,
you
know,
quickly.
Things
can
change
in
24
hours.
It
gives
you
a
new
perspective.
Oh,
yeah,
yeah.
They
change
even
in
12
hours.
Sometimes,
you
know,
we've.
Sometimes
I
contended
this
much.
Sometimes
we
have.
You
can
have
seeds
that
germinate
so
fast
that
we
have
to
count
withdrawal
germination
counts
every
12
hours.
Every
12
hours,
we
have
a
look
into
it
because
very
big.
Go
that
fast.
It
is
what
it
is.
Which
is
really
fantastic
and
fascinating.
But
sometimes
when
you're
a
younger
plant
scientist
can
be
a
pain
because
it
means
that
you
have
to
go
to
work
over
weekend.
Well,
at
least
you're
not
pulling
up
carpet
anymore
on
the
weekends.
You're
just
doing
something
a
little
bit
more
interesting.
Yeah,
yeah,
exactly,
exactly,
exactly.
But,
yeah,
you
know,
that's
it.
I
think
the
plants
are
the
core
and
like
you
say
something
in
the
industry
starting
to
be
really.
I'm
glad
that
our
sector
started
to
be
really
aware
of
that
and
really
raising
data
and
really
keeping
an
eye
on
the
plant
themselves,
because
that's
what
we
do.
Right.
There's
no
way
to
get
it
to
go
around
it.
No.
What's
been
the
shift
for
you
to
move
from.
From
plant
scientist
to
managing
now
a
team
of
scientists.
How
has
that
influenced
or
how
have
you
grown
or
had
to
evolve
as
a
leader?
So
the
shift
happens
because
I
guess
I
said,
again,
it
depends
on
personality.
Some
personality.
At
certain
point,
they
want
more.
They
won't
change.
Some
people
love
to
stay
in
the
bench.
And
at
a
certain
point,
I
just
had
enough,
and
I
want
to
have
a
bigger
picture.
And
tennis
ball
is
kind
of
a
natural
shift
rather
than
a
decision.
When
you
start
to
need
more
people
to
work
with
you
and
you
ask
your
boss,
I
need
more
stuff.
If
you
want
us
to
do
Everything.
So
what
happens
that
you
start
to
hire
more
people
and
then
naturally
you
have
to
say
oh,
sorry,
I
have
a
meeting.
Oh
sorry,
I
have
to
compile
the
budget.
So
you
start
to
stay
out
to
stay
out
more
and
a
different
set
of
challenges
arise.
It's
completely
different.
It's
more
like
having
a
picture
from
having
a
view
from
far
aside.
And
in
a
sense
it's
not
anymore
keeping
an
eye
on
your
one
or
two
experiments,
but
keeping
an
eye
on
10
experiments
of
the
whole
your
team
and
understanding
what
can
be
more
interesting
for
the
success
of
the
company
for
three
or
four
months
down
the
line
is
a
complete
shift
in
mentality.
And
also
it's
more
like,
oh,
you
guys
are
doing
this
now
in
6
months
I
need
to
achieve
that
other
objective
that
has
been
given
me
from
the
board
or
whatever.
So
suddenly
you
have
to
rethink
everything
and
rewire
all
the
program
of
the
lab,
of
everyone
to
achieve
that.
And
that's
a
great
challenge
because
it's
not
anymore
you
and
your
little
experiments,
but
it's
more
like
a
wider
perspective
on
the
success
of
everyone
else
and
just
make
sure
that
you
can
do
your
part
for
it.
What's
a
tough
question
you've
had
to
ask
yourself
recently?
A
tough
question
I
have
to
ask
myself
professionally
or
in
my
human
life
or
both.
I'll
take
both.
You've
taken
both.
Okay,
okay,
okay.
That's
even
harder.
You
know
that
this
is
you
completely
pulling
the
carpet
off
my
feet.
I
don't
know
what
to
say
now.
I
don't
know
what
to
say.
How
about
in
professionally?
Like
what?
When
you
think
about
where
you're
going
and
all
the
projects
that
you
have
and
the
objectives
you're
trying
to
accomplish
with
Zyndu,
you
know,
do
you
think
about
how
you
get
there?
And
if
you
have,
you
know
what?
I
always
think
about
that,
which
is
always
in
the
back
of
my
mind.
That
is
one
of
the
things
that
I
guess
it
may
it
makes
a
difference
when
you
start
to
go
into
more
management
role
is
what
should
I
do
to
make
sure
that
the
company
has
success?
Because
being
successful
means
that
not
only
I
can
pay
my
bills,
but
also
my
guys.
And
that
for
me
is
getting
really
important
because
you
know,
sometimes
a
stuck
up
life
is
a
roller
coaster,
we
all
know
that.
But
he
went
through
it
and
wait
a
minute,
I
need
to
make
sure
that
my
boys
pay
their
rent
or
the
mortgage.
Yeah.
And
that
is
one
of
the
tough
questions.
Am
I
doing
good
enough?
Am
I
doing
good
enough
then?
Am
I
doing
good
enough
for
me
and
am
I
still
really
true
to
myself
in
this
new
role
that
I'm
doing
lately,
it's
difficult.
Those
are
my
biggest
questions
at
the
moment.
Those
are
good.
Well,
I
appreciate
you
coming
on
the
show
and
giving
us
a
deeper
dive
into
the
world
of
like
what
happens
with
plant
science,
because
it's
a
lot.
We
cover
it
in
different
areas
a
lot
of
times
from
the
founder's
perspective.
So
I
really
appreciate
this
deeper
dive
and
I
think
there's
people
that
the
audience
that
are
going
to
be
interested
and
obviously
there's
always
people
that
are
coming
into
the
industry
that
are
new
to
plant
science
and
they're
really
excited.
I'm
sure
you
remember
what
the
energy
is
like
when
you're
first
getting
started
with
your
career.
So
I
think
this
epic
conversation,
I
think
was
a
nice,
helpful
insight
to
how
you
got
to
where
you
are
and
what
keeps
you
motivated
and
what
keeps
you
moving
forward.
So
I
want
to
thank
you
for
sharing
your
backstory
and
your
history
with
Zyndu,
because
I
think
it
was
really
interesting.
Thanks
Sari.
Yeah,
actually
it's
been
really
fun.
Stay
here
and
chatting
made
me
think
about
so
many
things
that
I
have
forgotten
in
time.
So
thank
you
very
much
for
this.
It
was
really
good.
Yeah,
thanks
again.
And
we'll
make
sure
that
we'll
have
links
to
your
contact
information
and
Zaindu
in
the
show
notes
and
if
people
want
to
get
in
touch
with
you,
we'll
make
sure
we
have
that
information
available.
But
I
appreciate
you
sharing
your
story.
Thank
you.
Thanks
again
for
listening.
Eternally
grateful
to
my
guests
for
spending
that
precious
hour
of
time
with
me.
And
sharing
their
story.
As
always,
full
show
notes
available@verticalfarmingpodcast.com
there
you'll
find
summaries,
key
takeaways
and
resources
mentioned,
and
also
a
back
catalog
of
all
our
past
episodes.
Special
thanks
to
our
season
12
sponsors
agtechcompanies.com
our
comprehensive
listing
of
all
all
the
innovative
companies
making
waves
in
the
world
of
agtech.
Sign
up
for
your
profile
and
get
your
company
featured@agtechcompanies.com
also
make
sure
you
check
out
our
deep
dive
into
the
state
of
controlled
environment
agriculture
in
the
US
this
2025
indoor
farming
market
research
report,
authored
by
Sepper
Ashard
and
Teo
Otto,
is
packed
with
the
latest
insights,
market
trends,
investment
outlooks,
game
changing
technologies
and
the
biggest
opportunities
shaping
the
future
of
food
production
production.
Download
the
free
report@verticalfarmingpodcast.com
report
podcast
production
and
Marketing
Provided
by
Fullcast
to
learn.
About
the
five
key
pillars
of
a
successful
podcast
that
every
business
owner
needs.
To
know
prior
to
launching,
visit
Fullcast
co
and
watch
the
free
video.
As
a
reminder,
if
you've
enjoyed
this
episode
or
any
of
our
past
episodes,
please
leave
me
a
rating
and
review@verticalfarmingpodcast.com.
Love
nothing
would
please
me
more
than.
To
read
these
out
on
a
future
episode.
And
don't
forget
to
tune
in
next
week
for
a
conversation
with
yet
another.
Fascinating
leader
from
the
world
of
vertical
farming.
Until
we
meet
again,
here's
to
your
health.
Thanks
for
listening.
To
hear
all
past
episodes
and
read
the
episode
summaries,
which
includes
any
links
mentioned
in
the
episode,
as
well
as
a
full
show
transcription,
visit
verticalfarmingpodcast.com
there
you
can
sign
up
Sign
up
for
our
list
to
be
notified
when
new
episodes
are
published.
